If you want to be better in sales, you have to fully understand the consumer buying process and how customers buy.
This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl closes out 2020 by bringing in Bob Moesta, the brilliant scholar and President of The Re-Wired Group to help you on your way to mastering demand-side sales. Darryl and Bob discuss the Buyer’s Timeline and offer extremely valuable advice on how you can better serve your prospects by knowing where they are in their buying process. They share tips such as taking the time to examine what pushed your prospect to make a purchase, how creating friction can create value, and why you need to be more of a concierge or a mentor to your prospects. Learn how to make more sales by seeing the world through your customer’s eyes on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!''Most people don't even know that they're struggling, and part of marketing's job is to actually uncover the struggling and then enable them to go from what we call passive to active.'' @bmoesta 🎧 Listen as Bob digs into the consumer… Click To Tweet
Host: Darryl Praill, VanillaSoft
Guest: Bob Moesta, The Re-Wired Group
Darryl Praill: Welcome back folks. It’s been a week, can you believe that? It’s been a week already, what have you done this week? What exciting things have you done? Quick top of mind. Did you think about it? Did you think about what you’ve done this last week since we last talked to each other? Of course, this all assumes you can listen to me every single week. I gotta ask you a question, between you and I won’t tell anybody else, are you a little bit like me and you pick and choose the episodes of your podcast that you listen to? If so, what drives you there? Is it the abstract? Is it just you only have so many hours in the week and you’ve got maybe your top five, top 10 podcasts, and maybe you wanna get to number three this week and next week you get to number seven?
Darryl Praill: There is so much truth in that, we make these decisions nonstop, even as it relates to our podcast listening habits around what we choose to spend, to invest our time in. It’s such a personal thing if you’re like me, when I read the abstract of that week’s episode whatever podcast it is, I’m like, I don’t need help with that one or, yeah, I know that one, or oh, oh that I need help with, I’m gonna listen to that one. It’s so true, in the end, this is simple acronym, right? It’s W-I-I-F-M, what’s in it for me?
Darryl Praill: And if you’re like me and you choose your podcast based on what’s in it for me, then you can now relate to your sales prospect because that’s what they’re doing to you. Have you thought about it that way? When you reach out to them, they’re really saying, yeah, if I listen to you, if I take time, if I take this call, if I reply to this email, if I submit my name and email address on this form and I know they’re gonna call me, what’s in it for me? See that’s the thing, when they do what’s in it for me, they’re not at this point in time really interested in your features or your functions or your services. I mean, sure they’ve maybe looked at it a little bit but even then when they look at it, they’re not saying, “Oh I gotta have that whizzbang feature.” They’re saying, “If I had that whizzbang feature, I think that means it would allow me to do that. And if I did that, that pain would go away.
Darryl Praill: So what’s in it for me is that that feature allows me to solve that pain.” All right, you notice it’s not the feature, it’s the outcome. What’s in it for me? The same way you listen to your podcasts. Now, what’s kind of funny about that is a real life story. So real life story, you may not know this I’m a little busy on social media on occasion, I like to voice my opinions and share some stories and once in a while come out and tell you to attend an event and listen to a podcast. But when I do that, I do that regularly, and I do that merely for the sake of a couple of things. One it’s personal branding, it’s thought leadership, we’ve talked about this before on the show, you need to develop your own brand.
Darryl Praill: Part of it is about developing a relationship with the tribe, giving back. As people are fond of saying these days is about making a deposit so that one day you can make that withdrawal. And how I see that reflected is when I make deposits, when I do content online whether it’s a video or it’s a blog post or it’s a how-to article, is that people consume the content. And over time they consume multiple pieces of content. And then they come to me and they physically say, “Hey, Darryl wonder if you could help me with this problem.”
Darryl Praill: Now what’s interesting about that whole scenario is the dynamic in play there. I never went to them and said, “Hey I’ve got this cool sales engagement platform that has all these great products and features.” I actually spoke to the pains that we all live with everyday in sales and how to deal with it. And sometimes maybe my product can apply to them, often it doesn’t, but there’s the idea of me working with them because what’s in it for them, is they get a solution to a problem they may have. And when I do that ultimately, they will come to me and say, “I trust you, I think you can add value. You seem to understand my world. You seem to have a point of view that resonated with me on my current circumstances. Maybe you can help me, maybe VanillaSoft is a solution I should evaluate.”
Darryl Praill: So you see what happens there? They didn’t come to me and say, “Show me your product.” And I’m doing a comparison between you and other products out there I’m going to have feature for feature for feature to see how you compare and contrast, they’re saying, “What’s in it for me? I think you’ve conveyed that you know how to solve that problem. And maybe that’s VanillaSoft or maybe it’s something else, I don’t know, my point is that every step along the way there whether we are making a decision on a podcast we listen to, or a we’re talking to a prospect the universal underlying theme I have always found is what’s in it for me, not how does your feature work? And too many of you are just doing praying and spraying with all your feature sets hoping that the customer can bridge that connection between what you just said and all on your rat a tat tat of features to a problem they have and you’re getting it wrong, and that’s why you’re struggling. So how do we fix that?
Welcome Bob Moesta
Darryl Praill: Well, the other day I was approached, I was approached by a fellow named Bob Moesta. If you don’t know Bob, let me tell you a bit about Bob. Bob is a lifelong innovator and he’s the co architect of the jobs to be done theory. I love this, and he himself has helped develop and launch over 3,500 products, and he’s sold everything from design services, software, houses, consumer electronics, and investment services as well as launching seven startups. So listen to that, that’s eclectic, you know what I’m saying? It’s eclectic. So what is he doing that he can do all these different things? So this is gonna tie back into the what’s in it for me? He’s also an adjunct lecturer at Kellogg School at Northwestern University, and he lectures on innovation at Harvard and MIT.
Darryl Praill: So this is my way of saying he’s smart, he’s successful and he’s smart. He’s got a new book coming out, it’s called “Demand-Side Sales” and he’s gonna detail for us today the success he’s had by flipping the lens on sales. In other words, we’re gonna talk a little bit about what I call what’s in it for me, he’s got a whole different vernacular he uses, Bob, welcome to the show, my friend. How are you?
Bob Moesta: Well, thank you. I’m great, excited to be here Darryl.
Darryl Praill: Oh, that’s fantastic. Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about “Demand-Side Sales”. Let’s just kind of level set because for those who are wondering on the Genesis of demand side and why that’s called demand side sales, I mean it goes back to economics if you will, demand side versus supply side, I’m assuming. So why don’t you maybe level set for us on the name and why it matters.
Bob Moesta: Yeah, so here’s the thing is that, and this doesn’t actually come from economics so I’m an engineer and I’ve been building products for like the way I say it is I’ve been breaking things for 50 years, I’ve been fixing things for 45 years but I’ve been building things for about 30 years. And one of the things that comes up is this notion of like I was actually taught to think about product and build product. And so what happens is I end up, I’m gonna just show you a different view here for a second, which is, I’ve been basically thinking about it from what I call the supply side of the world, which is this notion of there’s companies and brands and products.
Bob Moesta: And the supply side is this aspect of where I’ve got a product, I make software, I make mattresses, I do whatever. And I was taught to build the best thing in the world, and that product has features and benefits, it has experiences and attributes, and I go sell my product. The problem is there’s this wall, and the wall is 10 feet thick concrete that’s a hundred feet high, and what happens is when I kind of try to look over it what I end up seeing is this whole notion of what I call, sorry, I gotta just change a little bit on the aspect here. But what I end up seeing is this whole aspect of I see market, I see lots of people.
Bob Moesta: So if I’m making mattresses, the whole thing is who needs a mattress? Well, everybody needs a mattress, right? Like who has a bedroom? Who has an extra bedroom? Hotels, all these people need mattresses. But the reality is that at some point in time why do people buy mattresses is different than who needs a mattress. And so you start to actually realize what causes somebody to say today’s the day they need a new mattress. And you start to realize that it’s not about a mattress at all, it’s about sleep. And so you start to realize when you hop over this wall and you look at it from the other side, you actually see that it’s a struggling moment that causes people to buy something new. And it’s that what’s in it for me mentality of like they’re struggling and they wanna make progress.
Bob Moesta: If people don’t struggle, they actually don’t do anything different. They’re gonna buy or use what they always used. And so what you start to do is when you study people, not steps of people, but individuals and say what causes somebody to say, today’s the day I need , or I’m gonna buy a new mattress. It comes with a struggling moment embedded in it. That struggling moment has a current product that they’re using, and they’re in a context that literally says I can’t do this. It’s the problem, it’s the pain that they have. But once they agree that the pain is something that they have to address, they now have a new desired outcome.
Bob Moesta: It’s not the features they need it’s the outcome that they’re looking for, and somehow they have to connect your features to their outcome. And then what happens is they look at candidates, right? They can pick this one or that one or this one or that one, but they have hiring and firing criteria, and they have trade-offs. And so part of this is that we end up saying that people don’t actually buy products, they hire them to make progress in their lives. And what they do is they actually look over that wall and all they see is companies, brands, and products. And so part of this is what my whole notion was is that being raised on the supply side of the world is that’s what’s selling is.
Bob Moesta: But on the demand side, it’s like, how do people buy? And that, one of the things where I wrote the book was the aspect of like in most business schools, they don’t teach sales at all. And partially because they think sales is all about products and techniques, it’s not about actually “a theory”. So the reason why I’ve written it as I like, I wanna actually say if we can actually understand how people buy, then we should actually be able to understand how we should set up the selling process. And so it’s using the buying process or the job that they’re hiring the product to do to actually understand one how they buy so we can actually understand how to sell better.
The Consumer Buying Process
Darryl Praill: So a couple things, my mind is whirring, where do I go first? So for those who are those who are listening to the audio-only version of the podcast, this is one of those weeks I would say, no, no, no, it’s all good, cause we would do audio and video Bob, it’s great. If you’re hearing the audio-only version of the podcast, go check out the video cause what you’re missing and Bob is doing a great job describing it to you but if you want it, he’s got visuals. And they’re very cool, he’s showing slides right now that are phenomenal charts, and what I like about it is Bob does a pretty good job just now of what I just said to you, right?
Darryl Praill: What’s in it for me? And you’re wanting to sell features and functions but I’ve got a pain, and what he calls the struggling moment. Now you would hear other people say, “Well, what’s their pain or do you know your ideal customer profile?” But what I like about what Bob’s point is, is it’s just so personal. What is their struggling moment? And then the second part he made which was really, really huge and I don’t hear a lot of people talk about this. So if that’s a struggling moment, they have bad sleep, what’s the outcome they desire? All right, so we’re not talking about, is that a coil spring? Is it memory foam? Is it King size, is it queen size? None of that came up. What was the struggling moment? Poor sleep. What was the outcome they wanted? Lots of rest, who knows? So let me ask you this, do you guys know your customers’ struggling moment? Now Bob, you’ve done was it over 3,500 different products? Is there a routine you figured out to figure out the struggling moment?
Bob Moesta: Yeah, so here’s the thing is the other part you start to realize is that the competitive set is actually very, very different from the customer’s mind than it is from your mind. So you’re comparing and contrasting for example, different mattresses, and the reality is what what’s competing with a mattress is ZzzQuil, it’s a bottle of scotch, it’s working out late at night. It’s like all these other things that, they don’t even realize they need a mattress, it’s sleeping in the barcalounger.
Bob Moesta: And so you start to realize that at some point in time, because we don’t see the world through the customer’s eyes and see what they see, we actually assume that, Serta and Sleep Number and Casper all compete with each other, when the reality is the true way in which to actually get them to go active is to say like how many bottles of ZzzQuil do you take before you realize you need a new mattress? That’s actually how you start to get people to understand that they have a problem.
Bob Moesta: And so part of this is most people don’t even know that they’re struggling, and part of marketing’s job is to actually uncover the struggling and then enable them to go from what we call passive to active. And so I have a I have a couple of frameworks that help me do that, and it’s taking a step back from the product and basically looking at it and saying like, “What’s the progress that somebody is trying to make when they pull something new in through the life?” So the first thing is I never talk to people who want to buy a mattress, I don’t talk to people who want to buy a house, I talk to people who have already bought because the people who have bought have had to go through the entire process, they’ve had to actually muster enough energy to figure it all out.
Bob Moesta: And so what I do is I use postmortems of past sales to then understand the forces of progress, what pushes them? What pulls them? What anxieties do they have? What habits do they have? And what do I have to do to overcome? Because everybody is switching from something to something else, right? From something old to something new. And the reality is doing nothing to doing something is still a switch. And so it’s trying to understand what is the switching behavior for people? And understanding how do we help them make the progress? This isn’t about you alleviating the friction in it, in some cases you have to create friction because friction actually creates value. And so part of this is to understand the progress they’re trying to make, and the process that go through in order to make that progress.
Darryl Praill: All right, so we’re gonna take a quick break and we’re gonna come back, and I’m gonna hit Bob up with a number of more questions cause I love this conversation, but if you want to, if you wanna hit pause, you don’t wanna put your phone or your radio on silent in the commercial, that’s cool. Think about this, again, what is your customer struggling with? What’s the friction they have? So we’ll right back. One of the things you talked about, Bob.
Darryl Praill: Okay, so when we left, you’re talking about the pushes, the pulls, the habits, the anxieties of your prospect. And that was really, I love those words, those words I don’t hear often, we hear the word pain over and over again but you’re really making it personal and relatable. The word anxiety, I love the word anxiety. When I say that word, I get anxious cause I can just so relate to it. And for the audience, what makes your prospect anxious? Have you thought about that?
Darryl Praill: And I love the point that Bob is getting at where he was talking about, it’s not that I’m looking for a mattress, there’s another problem underlying, it’s up to you to figure it out. And Bob made a really good point and was, you have to create friction to get to the value. In other words, sometimes you have to ask those uncomfortable questions. A lot of this is about the perspective that you as a sales rep take into the process, and Bob, I wanna poke you a little bit here cause I’ve heard you use the word concierge or mentor or coach. So I’m gonna ask you to explain that to me, but while you’re doing that, so folks listen to me, okay. Bob is gonna suggest that you become not a sales rep pushing a mattress or a software product or a widget, you become a concierge, you become a mentor to your prospect. What do you mean by that, Bob?
Bob Moesta: Yup, so I’m gonna share my screen again, let me just pull that up. So here’s the thing is the basic premise is this, is people don’t buy products, they actually hire them to make progress in their life. And so there’s a couple of things, one is that they have to be in a struggling moment. So just who I am doesn’t make me a prospect, just because I’m 55 and I live in this zip code and I have this income and I have this title, doesn’t make me a prospect. It’s not only who I am but it’s where I am, it’s when I am, and it’s why. And so part of this is understanding the struggling circumstance that I have, and what’s pushing me to the edge. And there’s this river in between but at some point, if you push me to the edge and I don’t actually see anything on the other side, I just complain a bunch.
Bob Moesta: At some point it’s like, this sucks. But the moment I can see the other side, all of a sudden I have something that pulls me to the other side. And so I don’t really care what people actually bought, so I actually talked to people who bought my product and some people who basically bought somebody else’s product to understand the progress they’re trying to make, the circumstance and the progress. Because look, there’s a thousand ways I can help that person to get across that river. I can give him a boat, I can teach him to swim, I can dig a tunnel, I can build a bridge, I can get a helicopter, like I can go on forever. But if I actually understand the situation they’re in and the outcome that they want, I can then decide whether I can actually help them or not or literally say, you know what?
Bob Moesta: You need somebody else to help you, because I don’t build bridges, I just build boats. And so all of a sudden you start to realize like what can I do around that? And so part of this is to actually understand what that gap is. The reality is it really gets back to these forces that if this is where they’re at a and this is the new way, there’s a push of the situation. There’s something that’s pushing them, that says, what I’m doing isn’t good enough. And what happens is they have to have an idea of the new way that creates pull.
Bob Moesta: But here’s the thing is the moment they have pull, there’s this waterline here where underneath the waterline there’s anxiety is the new solution. Like, well, how would we buy that? I didn’t budget for that. What do I do with my old data? Like all of these questions pop up. And so we talk about pain and gain but we never talk about the objections that people are gonna have. The other part is there’s an unwritten, other force over here called the habit of the present which is the things they love about what they already do. It’s the things that are they’re like, “I don’t really wanna give that up.”
Bob Moesta: And so part of this is to realize that there’s these two underlying forces, that if we don’t actually understand them, we actually don’t know how to sell. We just actually add more and more features that literally think they think we can get them to close, but the reality is like it’s a balance of understanding all these forces and how they help enable people to go from a to b.
Darryl Praill: So I wanna stop in this visual here, again guys, if you’re listening to the audio version this is the one week I would say, go get the video. Bob has done a great job with a slide here, and he uses the reference kind of what’s below the water line? And so he kind of says, what’s above the water line, if you will, that we can see kind of like the tip of the iceberg. He talks about in the current situation, I’ve got the push of the situation, I got the pain, the anxiety I’m feeling right now, and then the other side, where you wanna be is that pull or that new solution.
Darryl Praill: I want better sleep, that’s the pull. But I wanna focus for a little bit in this slide because it’s so powerful. What’s below the waterline? Have we thought about this before? I love Bob’s metaphor here, in the current moment, what’s below the waterline? What you don’t see is what he calls the habit, the habit of the present. And it truly is a habit, I’m just gonna keep on using Excel because I know Excel.
Bob Moesta: And I know how to use it, it’s on my computer, it’s there, I know it’s a pain but it’s still okay.
Darryl Praill: It’s still okay. He uses the term historical allegiance, he goes, I know how to use it. It’s okay, I trust Microsoft. Remember we wanna get to the pull of that new solution, that’s what we wanna get them to. Get them through the struggles to the new solution. But what’s beneath the waterline to make them go there is the anxiety, remember that word again, the anxiety of your new solution and all that surrounds that process, competition, budget, everything else. Everything here that’s below the water line is what you’re supposed to figure out in discovery. All right, but you need to go in knowing that they’re anxious and you’re scary because you represent change.
Bob Moesta: So here’s the other part of this though is that all of these forces build over time, and that whether you’re buying a new mattress or buying software or buying a car, or buying a pack of gum, there’s a first thought. There’s something called passive looking, I think a first thought is questions create spaces in the brain for solutions to fall into. And if they’re not actually asking a question there’s no space in their brain for your solution to even hit.
Bob Moesta: And so part of it is you have to be able to create a space. And once you create a space, now they actually can see things that they, like the day before they couldn’t actually see or they didn’t have a place to put it. That’s where they learn in passive looking, active looking is where they’re trying to see possibilities. And then at some point there’s then deciding but there’s these events that have to happen that enable them to move from mode to mode.
Bob Moesta: And so the reality is that when we think about sale when we think about this, we go to this slide, which is first thought is really about making the space and there’s things that they do and say in order to do that. And passive looking is actually about learning about the problem, learning about us, most people don’t actually have a solution in mind first, they have a problem in mind, they have the the consequences, the side effects. They’re like, how do I save time doing from Excel?
Bob Moesta: It’s like, they don’t even know there’s a way to automate it, for example. They don’t even know what a macro is. They just know how do I do repeated things over and over again so I don’t have to do that? Active looking as this notion of seeing possibilities, like this is what I call it magic wanding. Oh, I’d love to have that, oh, I’d love to have, this is where they talk about features, but really deciding is where they have to connect the dots. And they have to make trade-offs between features because they can’t have it all, nobody can have it all. Right, and if you’re a salesperson who convinces people to say like, “Oh, I can give it to you all.”
Bob Moesta: My belief is you’re not actually doing justice because value is actually determined by both that context and outcome, but it’s also the fact of the contrast of what they can’t have or they don’t need that enables them to determine value. And so trade-offs are an essential part of value. But once people make a decision, now I actually have to start to actually deliver on the progress. So what are the metrics that they actually see to make progress? So this is where I detail out where every time I build a product, it’s about how do we detail the progress that people are trying to make?
Bob Moesta: And then what’s the role of marketing and sales and customer support in the entire process to do that? And so the reality is like, it’s how do we see that timeline? And then understand what are the things we have to do to help them make progress? We don’t convince them of anything, they convince themselves. And so how do we work together to enable people to make progress with our product or our service?
Darryl Praill: So what’s brilliant about the slide that Bob was just showing, he calls it the customer’s buying time, what it does is it actually marries the role of marketing with the role of sales, with the role of support or success. And I would suggest you do a couple of things, I would suggest you go to Amazon, I would suggest you buy a whole bunch of copies of “Demand-Side Sales”. Then I suggest you give that to your leaders in those respective teams that you work alongside because those people, marketing, support and success, drive your success, drive your commission check, honest to God.
Darryl Praill: And then you use this slide, and what you learn in that book to sit around and have a conversation so you can understand the buying timeline. Now what I like about this is Bob talks about the timeline, you’ve heard us talk about maybe the buyer’s journey, same concept, but what I like about timeline is that it’s a temporal element, there is a timeline. Now Bob, we are really tight on time, ironically, but you make a point that talks about how we have this timeline but buyers can move back and forth in that timeline. Talk to me a bit about that.
Bob Moesta: Yeah, so here’s the thing is people actually go into active looking and they start to learn everything about your product. And then they say, yeah, then they ghost me. It’s like, yeah, they go away. And then, then six months later they come back and they say, “Can I get a quote?” And the reality is what happens is they think they know enough, they move to active looking. You actually explain everything to them but now they have a thousand more questions so they go back to passive looking.
Bob Moesta: And you think they’re ghosting you when they’re actually background processing to figure out how to make it work, and then out of nowhere, they come and buy and you’re like, I don’t know how that works. But this process starts to actually understand like what do people say and do when they’re in these different modes? Understand sometimes I could be in deciding, and then something happens at the company or something happens like a pandemic. And it’s like, oh, it’s not that I’m struggling with it, it’s like, I don’t know what to do with it. I go back to passive looking cause I don’t know how to make the decision.
Bob Moesta: And then when I come back, it’s like I’m now having actually might be in a different job. And so part of this is to realize like these are modes that people are in, think about them as hats that they wear as they go through it. And when we have a sales funnel, it’s like there’s only one way sales falling and that’s out. And so to be honest, this helps us start to articulate the behaviors that people have, and to be honest, I’ve helped companies, for example they had one demo.
Bob Moesta: But if I have a demo in passive looking it’s about learning language and hearing what other people do and whatever, but a demo in active looking is about all the possibilities. And a demo for deciding is actually about making trade-offs. And so you start to realize, everybody tries to make one demo and force everybody to a demo, but it depends on where they’re at in their timeline. Where their buying timeline as opposed to like our sales funnel says, a market book demos close.
Darryl Praill: It’s so fun, I love this slide again because there’s so many things about this that resonate with me. Which part of it is what I just saw they look at that timeline, it’s really no different than your actual sales process. You had different sales stages maybe in your CRM as you move them along on the percentage of likelihood of closing increases, it’s exact same way. And they can move back and forth. And I love the point he was making that, maybe they were an active looking they went back to passive looking because they didn’t know how to make a decision, or they didn’t know where to get the money from or whatever.
Darryl Praill: It could be lots of reasons or it could be just fear of change, lots of reasons. So that’s another reason why you need to have multiple champions in the sales cycle to help move it along, because if one gets stuck, the other one maybe they’ll help them out. So this is how you need to understand it. And it’s so cool ’cause I know we just made an acquisition here a couple called Autoklose, so they do a lot of sales nurturing which is kind of the, if you look at, they’re just checking it out the first stage that’s marketing, the second stage passive looking, that would be the sales nurturing side. I’m just gonna send them emails casually from me. And then the active looking now you’re in the sales engagement side, and now they’re in the decision-making side, that’s your sales opportunity, yes or no. It’s a logical flow of your tech stack and your processes, the timeline works really, really well to convey that idea. So again, another reason what you should do, sit down with your colleagues and go through that timeline and understand that. What Bob has done here, go ahead.
Bob Moesta: So it’s just funny where like, so I’m coaching a few teams at this point sales teams around it, and one of the things I’ve kind of taught them to do is like ask people where they’re at in their buying timeline. And the first question that you asked is, well what does that mean? And then you can actually explain it to them and oh by the way, they can self identify exactly where they’re at.
Bob Moesta: And so part of this is like, because we used to ask that, we would say, “Well where are they in the sales funnel?” Like nobody wants to ask that question. But the fact is understanding where people sit in their buying timeline, is actually a way in which to say, well, that means you need to learn, let me help you, let me give you some resources to learn around these things. Oh, that would be great. Oh, you need to onboard people because when we get to active looking, you can actually have a team of people, so let me tell you how that works. And so all of a sudden you can actually educate them about the buying process, and they’re actually very comfortable with it. Where if you’re talking about trying to sell them, they’re always worried that you’re gonna try to get them to do something they don’t wanna do. Nobody wants to be sold.
Darryl Praill: Nobody wants to be sold. It all began with me rattling on about what’s in it for me? And that goes back to the struggle we have here. Folks we’re out of time, that’s Bob Moesta, author of “Demand-Side Sales” an academic brilliant rockstar, entrepreneur, all wrapped up in one. You should follow him on LinkedIn, you should follow him on Twitter, you can learn more about Bob and his company therewiredgroup.com or go to his own personal website, Bobmesta.com. We’re out of time folks, thank you, Bob, we’re gonna see you again next week. No matter what that says in the description, I’m gonna see you next week. I’ll talk to you soon, take care, have a great week, happy selling.