INSIDE Inside Sales – Ep 114: Mastering the Follow-Up

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Most sales professionals have a negative perception of follow-up, sadly throwing away the opportunity to stand out and connect with their prospects.

This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl is joined by Best-Selling author and foremost authority on the follow-up, Jeff Shore. Darryl and Jeff discuss the science behind why following-up can help you to close more deals, the optimal multi-channel strategy to leverage, as well as dispelling the myths and mental hang-ups behind why SDRs avoid the follow-up. They also talk about the wisdom of finding commonalities between you and your prospects and how following-up can lead to the benefit of referrals. Don’t miss learning how to maximize your prospect’s emotional altitude and close more deals on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!

''It's a matter of having people feel like they are connected, like they're being served, like somebody out there is thinking about their issues.'' 🎧 Listen as @JeffShore explains why following-up can help you to close more deals. Click To Tweet





Host: Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: Jeff Shore, Shore Consulting Inc.


Darryl Praill: My friends, my friends, how are you doing? We’re back, it’s another week. Last I checked, it’s still 2021. Last I checked, nobody’s missing 2020. And if you recall, if you listened to last week’s episode we were shopping for a car, I’ll give you an update on that soon and how that’s going because lo and behold, somewhat the story will continue into this week because it’s applicable. In fact, let’s just get right into it. So last we talked was about how, last episode was about how, we’ve done all these intent signals. We done a research on, my wife’s looking for car, we’ve done this research online, we’ve gone to the, we checked out the dealership, we did the Yelp reviews, the Google reviews, we knew it was a good dealership.

Darryl Praill: We’ve gone and we’ve gone to the lot, we saw all these cars we wanted to, we walked inside into the dealership in the middle of a Canadian winter, so, to get warm, you get a hot chocolate, use the bathroom, and actually talked to a rep about buying a car and you would think with all those buyer intent signals that physically it was, we’d just go and demo the cars, but instead he spent the next 30 minutes qualifying us and covering our pain points. Yes, he uncovered our pain points and it was a wonderful time. Many lessons to be learned from the car industry. If you didn’t listen to that episode, go listen to it again, but where do we pick up from there? Where we pick up from there is what happened. So this is what happened. My wife, that was on a Saturday, the dealership’s closed on a Sunday, so on a Monday my wife goes over there and says, I wanna take the car out for three, four hours, and drive around with it because I’ve got some…” cause she has a couple of herniated discs, “I wanna see if it hurts my back on a prolonged period of time.”

Darryl Praill: And then they said, “no problem.” And it was really good, actually we had that conversation on Saturday before we left, why it matters is that Monday morning we get a message from the rep simply saying, “just letting you know the car is prepped and ready for you and by the way, you know, there’s no late fees, we’re not like the doctors, or the dentist, or anybody else, take your time and enjoy the ride.” Very personal, very engaging. We showed up, she shows up, she does the thing, goes around for three, four hours, doing her errands and remarked on how the gas gauge didn’t move, loved the vehicle except the seat was too narrow.

Darryl Praill: My wife’s not a big woman, but the seat was too narrow and it was causing her discomfort with those same herniated discs. So the car, despite everything else being great, and the rep being great, was a bust. You would think that’s the end of the sale, that is an objection, that’s a hard objection when you’re selling vehicles, I don’t like this car. Yet, over the course, since that’s gone on, we’ve had a handful of correspondence to him, further qualifications. What is it specifically? You need something with a wider seat. Fair enough. Let me look at my options. Oh, look, I’ve got this vehicle here and he’s mixed it up. Text message here an email there, phone call here.

Darryl Praill: Not stalkery, you don’t feel like he’s just looking for a reason. No pressure. He’s not saying you need to come in now. Let me know when you want to come in. I’ll have it ready for you. Would you mind if I send you a few links to some of the cars, tell me to stop whenever you want. I don’t wanna be that guy. And my wife turns to me last night and says, “you know what? I really like this guy.” Oh, we didn’t know this guy from Adam. I really like this guy. “I wanna buy a car from this guy if I can.” So check that out. We’ve not found a car, but because of how this agent, this rep interacted with us, the tonality, the timing, the channel, the value, the lack of a pressure sale.

Darryl Praill: My wife is looking for a reason to buy from this sales rep. Isn’t that what you want? Can you imagine? Yeah. I want to sell you this million dollar piece of software. Well, I don’t like your software but please do you have another piece of software you can sell me? Cause I really like you that much. That’s where we’re at right now. This rep has done this. Simply done this by taking some time as it began the last episode to do some decent sales qualification not just making any assumptions.

Welcome Jeff Shore

Darryl Praill: We talked about W versus TED. W last time was what we all do. Why, what, who, why, why, why? TED, little soft approach. Tell me more. Explain to me. Describe what this would look like to you, TED. And he’s continued the TED. We’re gonna call it that from now. Something like a dance move. Instead of the Carlton it’s gonna be the TED. They heard of the TED. He’s done this on email, on social, on phone actually not a social sorry, but a text. You get the idea, multiple channels. And my wife, she’s my actual laboratory, is what she is.

Darryl Praill: And that’s when I said I have got to get an expert on here because the last one, it was about an expert on and saying this person was so great on discovering pain. I need to get a pain point expert. That’s what we did. Now I’m going, this person is so great in doing follow-up and the importance of how it can help you close a sale. That’s what I need to do. So I’m just taking my life. You’re living it with me and because of this fine rep at the local Nissan dealership here in Ottawa, Canada this is what’s driving our content calendar for the INSIDE Inside Sales Show. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, Mr. Jeff Shore. Jeff, how are you doing today my friend?

Jeff Shore: I’m doing great Darryl. And I have to say, that’s such a good story of a salesperson who’s doing it right. And I was talking to a sales person recently who did a great job on his fall but I won’t give you the whole story but he did a great job. And then I asked him, “Did they buy?” And this is what he said. He said, “No, but they had the decency to feel bad about it.” And I thought that was really great. That’s a great way to look at it. Like, you know, you’re doing your job that even if don’t get the sale, your customer feels bad that they didn’t buy from you which sounds like how you will feel if you have to buy from somebody else. We’re not gonna always have the right product, but we can always have the right relationship. It’s a great story, I love it.

Darryl Praill: Well, the funny part about that too is what am I gonna do? In our case, I’m gonna go on an international podcast and talk about them. But for many people, they’re just gonna do referrals. You gotta to meet this guy. He’s like, “Oh, you’re looking for a Nissan product? Go talk to this guy.” Let me do an introduction for you. I couldn’t buy because of my back but you should talk to this guy. I trust this guy. And we all know the biggest lead source. The biggest way to start a sale is through a referral. So even when you don’t win, you still win. And so folks, why did I ask Jeff to join us? Well, if you don’t know Jeff, you should. He’s the Founder and President of Shore Consulting.

Darryl Praill: He’s the host of the popular sales podcast The Buyer’s Mind. He’s a top selling author. Most recently go to Amazon. You’ll see his book called “Follow Up and Close the Sale“. “Follow Up and Close the Sale: Make Easy Follow Up Your Winning Habit”. Five stars, baby on Amazon. And it’s not like with one or two reviews it’s got a boatload or reviews. So there’s telling you something. And I had a chance to read the book. Now, you know what we do here at VanillaSoft, we’re a sales engagement platform. The very definition of our being is for follow-up. And I’m going through this book going, “Oh my gosh!”

Darryl Praill: I could just take his book and get rid of all my marketing material and sales collateral. And just say, every time someone calls us they just read this book, come back here sign the deal we’re done we’ll help you out. But so Jeff, what I want to talk about today is I want to talk about follow up if that’s okay with you so we can learn from you cause you are the expert. As is the sales rep selling Nissan cars and let’s get into it. Let’s get into what we should do, what we shouldn’t do why it matters if that’s okay with you.

Jeff Shore: Sure. So it sounds like fun.

Why is a follow-up important?

Darryl Praill: I wanna talk about just, okay let’s start off the baseline. So when we say follow-up, what does that mean to you?

Jeff Shore: Well, when you’re purchasing anything at all you’re gonna make a decision that’s largely based on your emotion. It’s supported by logic, but it’s an emotion based decision. I think we all know that. I don’t think we are… Modern science is telling us how much is based on emotion of the Swedish researcher Martin Lindstrom did a study. He actually hooked people up to a functional MRI, reading brainwaves while they were making purchase decisions. His research has 85% of the decision is emotionally based. So then you look and you say, well, when is the emotion the highest?

Jeff Shore: And it’s when you’re engaged, right? It’s when you’re trying it on or playing with it or driving it or whatever the case may be. And so we track something called emotional altitude. And I’ve talked a lot about this in the book, that emotional altitude is very, very high when you’re engaging with the product when you’re engaging with that salesperson. But what happens once you step away? Almost immediately that emotional altitude begins to wane. And the purpose of follow up is to sustain that emotional altitude to keep that emotional altitude high. So that, that customer who’s going to make an emotion-based decision will stay with you. The longer we go without following up the more that emotional altitude just falls off the planet. And pretty soon you’re just forgotten. And that’s not a good thing generally in sales.

Darryl Praill: So that’s really hitting on your book. It opens up with the why of follow up.

Jeff Shore: Yeah.

Darryl Praill: That’s to stay engaged and stay relevant, or is it even more than just that?

Jeff Shore: I sort of look at everything from the perspective of I’m interested in the way that salespeople sell but I’m much more interested in the way that buyers buy and even business buyers make emotion-based decisions. There are different types of emotions but they’re still emotional decisions. So how do we sustain that emotional altitude? How do we keep people emotionally engaged? And it’s not simply by just firing more facts and figures although that’s a part of the follow-up effort, it’s a matter of like, having people feel like they are connected, like they’re being served like somebody out there is thinking about their issues their concerns and their problems. How do we sustain that emotional altitude so that when they are ready to buy we’re gonna be their supplier of choice.

Darryl Praill: All right. So I’m going to stop right there, cause you said something that is so, I don’t know what to say, impactful, that most reps never quite understand. You made the point it’s not the way sellers sell, I mean, that’s interesting. It’s the way buyers buy. So folks, when you’re selling, it’s not about you. Yes, you’ve got to quota you gotta hit so many dials a day and then send so many emails and do so many social media touches. And many of you view that as I have to do this so my boss doesn’t rag on me because my activity numbers are down. That’s not it. You’re doing this because of exactly what Jeff said.

Darryl Praill: It’s about how buyers buy. You’re doing this because that’s how your buyer buys. So it’s not about you, it’s about them. And if you do your job right, then they’ll come to you. So then talk to me about some of your tips, what you see often Jeff and, and folks listen up. See if this is you, you talk about in your book about typical mistakes and consequences, and you talk about the bad news about the myths about the numbers don’t lie. Share that with us so that our audience can go, “Oh yeah, that’s me. I can identify.”

Jeff Shore: Right. Well, when I was researching the book I was happening to be reading at the same time. I wasn’t thinking that I was gonna use this in the book, but I was reading, re-reading actually Steven Pressfield’s incredible book called, “The War of Art” which is a book that he wrote for creative types, painters, writers, those types of people to talk about what happens with what we commonly call writer’s block. It’s a creativity block. And he talks about this sort of almost mythical beast that he calls resistance, capital “R” Resistance. It’s that force that sort of gets in the way and tells you, you don’t wanna do this now, you would rather do that. You wanna check Facebook over here. Anything other than lean in. Well, that resistance definitely plays a part when it comes to sales professionals and follow up.

Jeff Shore: Oftentimes salespeople have a negative opinion of follow-up it’s uncomfortable. They’ve never enjoyed it possibly because they’ve not been trained how to do it well. And so then that voice comes along and says, “you don’t wanna be that guy. You don’t wanna be that telemarketer type of person who’s just annoying people.” And I would agree you don’t. But when we look at that then, and say I’m not going to do follow up at all because that will be in my customer’s best interest. No, no, no, no, no, no. You’re falling way short of the value that you could provide. So it really begins with a mental hang-up that I think a lot of salespeople have.

The myths of following-up

Darryl Praill: Now, what about the myths that when that chapter caught my attention so share that with us.

Jeff Shore: Well, I think the biggest myth that sales people have is that customers don’t want them to follow up. And I think that we sometimes think about our own experience about the phone ringing during dinner and getting interrupted by a telemarketer or whatever. We find that distasteful and indeed it is. But the idea that a customer doesn’t want to follow up, well then the question would be, well, why would they not want you to follow up? And if you’re just picking up the phone and saying just checking in as my friend Art Sobczak calls it the “parole officer follow-up” approach, just checking in.

Jeff Shore: There’s no value being added. And so that’s the idea is that sometimes that myth is that we think we follow up so that we can check the box on the CRM and keep the boss happy. But rightly seen following up is about extending the service. It’s about serving long before anything else. So when we think about how well we know the customer, if we know the customer well enough you should never run out of material that will provide very, very valuable resources for your customer through the follow up process. But I think that’s the single biggest myth that we deal with, is that customers don’t want us to follow up and say. No, no, no, no customers don’t want to be bothered. They don’t want their time wasted. So here’s an idea don’t waste their time. Provide something useful and you will not have to worry about that issue.

Darryl Praill: It’s so weird. You say that because just again, the other day, I know even when I was in this dealership, right. The asking of the questionnaires, right. And what’s your email address? And what’s your phone number? And you know, as soon as you give those two, I’m either gonna text or an email or a both. And you’re at that time like, “Oh, do I give it to them or not?”

Jeff Shore: Right.

Darryl Praill: But once I give it and it’s no different than filling out a form on a website or anything else, once I give it then I know I’m going to get it. And so I’ve given you, I’ve already given you permission. And therefore I expect you to follow up. I want you to follow up. I made that decision when I shared that with you. You don’t have to ask for it. I laughed, you had Art Sobczak on your podcast. Again, check it out folks it’s The Buyer’s Mind, it’s like the who’s who I saw Blount on there, Sobczak and a whole list of people, some great people. But I had Art on our show too, a while ago. And Art and I went through the whole process of how to leave a voicemail.

Darryl Praill: So they do want follow-up and you should call and you might get a voicemail. Don’t just be the I’m checking in guy, exactly as you said, there is a science behind it. So folks if you haven’t heard that episode, go check it out. Speaking of science, there’s a science behind a podcast. That means we have to take a commercial, but guess what? The science says, we will be back. Don’t go anywhere.

Making sure you’re doing it the right way

Darryl Praill: And it seems science was right. We’re back that’s fantastic. All right. Let’s move into the, what should a rep do when it comes to follow up and let me set the stage a little bit. I’m making this open-ended but I’m kind of curious. This is kind of the meat of the whole show here. Your book talks at length about the concept of personalization.

Jeff Shore: Yeah.

Darryl Praill: But there’s also lots of things you can do whether it’s video or different channels, email what have you, social, text, you go into to length about timing, fast but not too fast kind of thing. And persistency, how many attempts do you make? So talk to me about the whole, what can you teach my audience about how they should follow up? All of the above.

Jeff Shore: Sure. Well, I would start by the two, what I call sales superpowers that are oftentimes not utilized but they’re available to everybody, and those would be speed and personalization. And the idea here is a lot of salespeople are gonna look at right from the very beginning and they’ll say, well, I’m going to follow up within 24 hours. And my first premise is that 24 hours is a lifetime. When you’ve got an active buyer who’s out there shopping around and they got their real world going on. They’re teenagers being a pain and the boss is a jerk. And I’ve got three other places that I’m shopping at. 24 hours is a very, very long time in my opinion, too long.

Jeff Shore: Then when I am going to follow up I’m gonna send this generic email that looks like every other email they’ve ever gotten. That’s not speed and that’s not personalized. So, I wanna look at it and say, if we want to extend the emotional altitude, how do we do that? Well, we keep them connected very, very quickly. And we make sure that our email is always tailored to the customer. So there is a point where, yes maybe our CRM is gonna take over but that’s not early. Early on what you want to do is I think sometimes the mistake that gets made by salespeople is they think of follow up as a series of disconnected calls or emails or texts or whatever it is. You want to think of this as one long narrative. So the conversation that you’re gonna have upfront before, for example, that visit to that showroom floor carries right into the visit. And then that’s gonna tie into the next call.

Jeff Shore: And that’s gonna tie into where… You wanna think about it this is a one long call but think about it from this perspective. I’m that sales person there in Ottawa, in the car dealership okay? And you’re there on the first visit. You drive away. Soon as you drive away, I pick up my smartphone and I send you a text message. And it just says, you know what? I talked to a lot of people in the course of my day. I really enjoyed that conversation. I know you said you want to be back on Monday. I’ll have the car ready, but thanks so much. We’ll see you Monday. Now what did you do? You honored them. You thanked them. You stood out from everybody else.

Jeff Shore: You put your phone number into their phone. So when you do call them they know who you are and you’ve confirmed an appointment. You did that in less than 30 seconds at a cost of zero. And you’ve already stood out. This doesn’t have to be difficult. We’re not trying to cure cancer here but those little things along the way that connect that customer to their initial emotional altitude and keep that high. And then we look and say how do I find the little ways to personalize that? And the things that you know about the customer there’s nothing that’s not valuable.

Jeff Shore: So as you’re personalizing, you’re thinking through what you know about their life, about their commute about their driving style, about what they’ve driven in the past, about their pets, about their kids. I mean, whatever you… All of those things are fodder for effective personalized follow-up as you move forward. Otherwise what are you gonna do? You’re gonna say the same generic crap that everybody else is sending. And you’re gonna look exactly like everybody else. That’s not how you stand out.

Darryl Praill: So what are your thoughts on follow-up? I mean, there’s two schools of thoughts. Okay. So back in 2017, I think it was INSIDE Inside Sales published an article in Xant. I’m sorry now known as Xant, published an article on HBR. It wasn’t Harvard research. It was an article. It’s published in HBR saying you need to follow up on the first five minutes and have a 10X return on your chance to engage a next step. We here at VanillaSoft back two plus years ago, did a study with Telfer School of Management, 130 million records. And what we saw was if you follow up in the first 5 minutes you actually negatively affect your likelihood because you become a bit of a stalker.

Darryl Praill: But you should ideally wait 20 minutes to an hour. Although upwards of four hours is also doable. Then the following year ago, we did a study of 2000 B2B executives where we flipped it, instead of saying, what is our sales engagement platform? 130 million records say, what do buyers say they wanna be followed up on? And what we got from them was if you follow up in about four hours, that’s cool. But if you wait more than a day, I’ve already forgotten about you. So what have you seen? What do you advise?

Jeff Shore: Yeah, first of all, I’m not gonna disagree with anything. If a customer just pulled away the example that I just used and I call that taillight follow up. I’m going to stand by that because it’s one-sided, it doesn’t demand a response. It would be one thing If I was calling them as they were driving away and saying just wanna confirm our appointment for Monday that’s over the top. But the text message is essentially a thank you note, but I do say very clearly in the book that that first point of voice to voice contact should not be 24 hours. That is too long. And then in fact, four hours is the sweet spot.

Jeff Shore: So if you met with them early in the day then by the end of the day you’ve had that opportunity to get back with them. If you’re meeting with them later in the afternoon then first thing, the next morning you’re getting back to them. The key here is… Again, you got to go back and ask what happens in the customer’s lives. What happens to their emotional altitude after they leave? Because the book here is what it’s all about what do you do when the customer says not yet? You believe that that customer is at least getting close to buy. So what are you doing to sustain that emotional altitude? And when too much time goes by and when the follow up itself is generic, there’s nothing that tweaks that emotional altitude that keeps it strong that keeps it in the right direction.

Darryl Praill: Alright, so you talked about, you used the phrase sustaining that emotional altitude and that’s a really vivid, visual, element for me to remember on why I’m doing that. Now, what we know though, is that statistically reps seem to make two or three attempts at reaching out to somebody, or at least trying to continue the dialogue. If they’ve already had an initial one and often they give up or they’ll do the same channel only. So only phone or only email as opposed to mixing it up. What do you know, what can you tell us is best practices or best advice when it comes to mixing up, I guess number of attempts, persistency as well as channels.

Jeff Shore: Yeah. Well, first of all, when you look at the way that you want to communicate with people it’s always best to think about it in what I would refer to as a communication hierarchy or communication effectiveness hierarchy. Face-to-face is definitely the most valuable way to be able to communicate there. Even now I can see you on video, Darryl but it’s still something that’s lost just a little bit right? So face-to-face you get that energy. You get that vibe, you get the whole, the whole nine yards. This is a close second. I would say, if we’re face-to-face by video, then what do we do? We look and say voice to voice. Those are what Jeb Blount would refer to as synchronous communications.

Jeff Shore: There’s a back and forth, there’s a give and take. But then you move into asynchronous communication. We start thinking about, a video message or a video text message. And then we start thinking about texts and emails and we’re moving down the effectiveness of communication as we do this. Somewhere down there near the bottom of the list is email communication. Now email has its place, but here’s the problem. It is without question, the dominant form of follow up. It is the number one way that salespeople follow up, by email. Well, that’s a problem because it also happens to be the least effective for the way that it’s used.

Jeff Shore: I say this because about 85% of emails never even get opened they go straight into a trash can right from the very beginning when you look at the billions of emails that are sent around the world every day that are pure spam. So is there a room for email? Yes, there is. There’s a strategic use for email, but if you’re relying only on email, and if you’re thinking that that’s gonna get you to stand out, I’m telling you you’re fodder for a junk folder somewhere either in all likelihood they’re not going to see it. So I would look at it and say how far up that hierarchy can I get? Face-to-face is best. This would be second if I can do it voice to voice. After that I wanna think about the richest form of follow up and ask, how do I do that?

Jeff Shore: Now, having said that I’m gonna look at it, I’m gonna say I need to confirm an appointment. I probably don’t need to get face-to-face to confirm an appointment. So I will let them… Here’s the rule of thumb. Let the message dictate the medium. What’s the purpose of the message. If I want to just confirm an appointment, what’s the right medium for that. Well, it’s a text message in my opinion. I can send that quick text message. We can do that. I can follow it up with the voicemail if you’re doing a calendar entry, but let the message decide. The key here is to let the message decide not your comfort level. There’s a reason that email is the most used form of follow-up it’s because it’s the most comfortable form of follow-up. And that’s the one that rubs me the wrong way.

Darryl Praill: I am smiling ear to ear. I have had this conversation too many times. The phone is huge face to face. Many people don’t turn their video on. When you have a zoom meeting, you just go audio only when you’re missing a chance to convey body language obviously face to face will never… That’s why I miss physical events, live events

Jeff Shore: Sure.

Darryl Praill: Where you talk to people one-on-one. But too many people hide behind email. And why folks? Exactly because of what Jeff just said, it’s what’s convenient to you. But remember, but Jeff also said, it’s not about you. It’s about how the buyer buys. You’re doing this because that’s how the buyer buys. So you wanna respond promptly. You wanna respond with persistency. You wanna let the message and the medium work together to get your objective based on how the buyer buys, because you want to sustain that engagement you have with the buyer already. Alright, so that leads to the message. We have to make it personal. We all know that. We all hear it.

Start with what you have in common

Darryl Praill: You say something in your book that made me just giggle. And it’s giggle for joy, because like people just don’t get this. You use the phrase, “start with what you have in common” and by that I’m assuming you don’t mean, “Oh, look we both went to the same Alma mater. What do you mean by that?” When you say, start with what you have in common and what even leads you to bring that up in the first place?

Jeff Shore: Yeah, well, I’m a huge fan of the psychologist Robert Cialdini and his work and especially his book “Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion.” And in that book he talks about six key principles of influence. One of those is that sense of friendliness of commonality. When we more influenced by people with whom we have something in common. When you go back to, Oh boy, I’m just thinking all the way back to the tragedy of 9/11, man, here South of your border, The United States really just coalesced right there because we were all going through this tragedy at the same time. That’s an extreme example.

Jeff Shore: But what happens here is that when it comes to the idea of being a sales professional, it also means that I need to be able to demonstrate my humanness and people are willing to connect with humanness if they feel like there is that sense of we’re in this journey together. So those times that I can step into their life when I can walk into their shoes. And this is why the principle of empathy is so critical. It’s such a valuable tool for sales counselors. It’s not just a matter of knowing what you feel it’s feeling what you feel that includes that commonness with them. But that’s really what it is. It increases our influence authority when we find those things that are going to be in common. Now, as you pointed out appropriately so Darryl, it’s very easy to cross that line and to look at it and say, “Oh, you got a Ottawa Senator’s shirt on there. I know somebody who’s a Senators fan”. Who cares, right? It’s gotta be something in the human experience. That’s gonna make a lot more, a lot more sense than that.

Darryl Praill: You know, as I’m looking at this I can help but be reminded Jeff that you’re a San Jose Sharks fan and you took Karlsson from us. So I’m just bitter about that. Speaking of commonality, we have that in common. So what do we know here folks? We know we’re running tight on time. You need to follow Jeff he’s on LinkedIn, all right? It’s just You need to follow him on Twitter, And you go to his website. Guess what it is? Yeah, that’s right. Not the G, but with a J, J-E-F-F. So check out his podcast, The Buyer’s Mind. All right. It’s on his website, So there you go.

Darryl Praill: You need to buy his book. I’m telling you, I’ve read the book. You need to buy the book, Follow Up and Close the Sale. Make Easy Follow-Up Your Winning Habit. Invest in yourself. Now that’s your next step. Go read the book. But beyond that, Jeff’s got something that I think you need to know about because this might be where you go next. Beyond everything I just said, cause we can do now it’s going to take five minutes but now I mentioned invest in yourself. Jeff what can they do beyond the book?

Jeff Shore: Yeah, I put together a masterclass because when you’re writing a book, there’s a lot of stuff you’re limited by the publisher as to how many words you can put in the book. There’s a lot of stuff that didn’t fit in the book. We just carved it out and put it into a masterclass. So if you go to and click on our Distance Learning tab, you’ll see it right there. And it is an opportunity here to be able to say how do I dig deep? Some people learn better by reading a book. And I think you should read the book, of course but some people are more activity focused. How do I apply that directly? And the masterclass can help you with more of the advanced stuff.

Darryl Praill: So there you go. How often have you guys heard me say if you’re a regular listener on the show, learning is earning, right? So reading the book, easy, one-time small investment, you’re learning. You’re gonna apply the principles. You’re an A/B test it, right? We always talk about A/B tested. You heard Jeff talk about a CRM or it could be your sales engagement platform, either way test it, A/B test it, but then I’ve talked as well at length about you spending your money to invest in yourself because you are your own entrepreneur even when you work for somebody else, because you never know your next gig.

Darryl Praill: So to do that, consider the masterclass because I can tell you sitting here as a CRO of VanillaSoft, a sales engagement platform, which is all about the follow-up, which is what we talked about today, that’s literally what we talked about today, that it makes a dramatic difference in your take home pay because you’re going to close a hell of a lot more deals. What I liked about what Jeff was getting into was you’re not doing this for yourself. You’re doing this because that’s what the buyer buys.

Darryl Praill: You’re trying to sustain a relationship and you’re just using the tools at play. That’s why you do it. It’s as simple as that. Anyway, we are out of time. Jeff, thank you for your time today. I had a lot of fun and folks, if you liked this show well guess what, we’re going to do it again next week. In the meantime, please like us share us all the usual stuff. Just basically honk our horn as much as you can. I hope to see you online. You can always find me on Twitter send me your feedback or on LinkedIn. Tell me your thoughts, your comments. I wanna hear from you always open to ideas and guests send them my way. I’m Darryl Praill I’m with VanillaSoft and this is INSIDE Inside Sales.