INSIDE Inside Sales – Ep 124: Making Outbound Work For You

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New to ABM? Good. Get ready to sit in the passenger seat and let your buyer take the wheel. It’s time to make outbound sales work for you.

In this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl welcomes Mark Ebert, ABM Specialist and SVP of Sales at 6sense to discuss the ins and outs of transitioning from inbound to outbound sales, as well as the challenges of selling to an educated B2B audience. Learn how to smoothly adjust to this more disruptive approach, successfully open opportunities on an outbound motion, and most importantly, get inside your buyer’s head. Subscribe now and unleash your inner outbound rockstar!

''If we're in the seller seat, hopefully, step one is you really understand the problem you're solving for your customer base, and that's crystal clear in your head.'' ~ Mark Ebert #OutboundSales Click To Tweet






Host: Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: Mark Ebert6sense


Welcome Mark Ebert

Darryl Praill: How is everybody doing today? I’m in a good mood. Why? You’re probably saying why. Well, as you know, the accent always gives it away. I’m Canadian, and many of you take great joy and pleasure in mocking my outs and my abouts. But I do like to remind especially all the folks from the Boston area, but at least in Canada, we know how to say the letter R and we don’t drop it.

Darryl Praill: In fact, it’s funny because whenever I watched home and garden TV, true story, we watch the American shows, we have Canadian shows and American shows obviously in our HGTV but we watch the American shows, and they always talk about ‘Now we’re gonna walk into the foyer.’ The foyer. And that sounds like right to every single American listener now. We have the foyer. And see in Canada, we all laugh and laugh at you, because it’s not the foyer, it’s the foyer. It’s a French word, foyer. Foyer, it’s a foyer. But you guys love the foyer.

Darryl Praill: So hey, process, process, schedule, schedule outs and abouts, what makes the world go round, ain’t it the truth? No matter how you sound, I’m thrilled you’re here. Welcome back. I had the opportunity to talk to some really smart people in the last couple of days. And I was sharing with them a story that I started to think you know what, I bet that you guys would love to hear this story. And it was a personal story.

Darryl Praill: It was really… We’re talking about, “Hey, Darryl, you’ve been CRO for Geez, how long is it going on?” Nine months, pretty much this month, going on nine months? How’s it going? What have been your biggest challenges? Are you tracking? What do you think of the role? Would you take the job again if it was offered to you all over again? And I shared that over the last three months especially, I really started to feel like a CRO. I feel like… This is gonna sound bad ’cause you would say about, what does a CRO feel like Darryl?

Darryl Praill: And I said, “Well, a CRO to me feels like I am immersed. I’m all in on sales.” ‘Cause before I was CRO, I was all in on marketing, right? And you would say rightfully, “Well, Darryl, isn’t that just a VP of sales then if you’re all in on sales? Aren’t you supposed to be the sales and marketing guy? You own it all? You’re the guy making sure everybody is online?” And the answer is, yes. But of course, I already understood marketing, and was aligned with them. My biggest thing was making sure that a large portion of my time, my mindset, my thinking, my big picture of the moves I’m making are sales centric, and I really feel like I’m there. The thing I was sharing was, the biggest challenge we’ve had was a decision I made early on when I took over, was to try to grow the average deal size, and really grow our market share and our target industries.

Darryl Praill: And to do that, I made a choice to go all in on account based marketing. We were historically an inbound company. So when I say inbound, basically the majority of the leads were coming to us through marketing efforts, pay per click, events, trade shows, content, whatever, organic traffic et cetera. So if you’re in historically inbound shop, then you understand I’m saying, if you’re historically outbound shop, then you can just tune out now and ignore the rest of this episode, unless you just wanna sit back and mock me, or go on social and add comments to whatever I forget to say, which I encourage both.

Darryl Praill: So, basically we adopted the double funnel, right? You have demand Gen inbound, and then we have outbound ABM. And what I did not anticipate, I was all in, I’m a convert, I believe in it, I’ve said this before, ABM has been around for decades and decades and decades in the ’90s basically, it was what IBM was referred to as target accounts selling, but the technology today allows you to do so much more amazing stuff and influence and targeting. It’s crazy.

Darryl Praill: So clearly, it’s coming into its own, which is why I pursued it, but the challenge I didn’t expect, and this is the challenge that every single one listening to this, who’s making this transition, I suspect will relate to or you’re gonna naively say, “Praill, you’re stupid,” and I will retort saying, “Then you haven’t got it yet.” Which is the transition from being an inbound rep to an outbound rep, is huge, and nobody truly understands the consequences and the effort and the cultural shift, and the sales methodology in the approach you take when you make that transition. I mean, think about it on inbound, they’re just coming to you and you’re like, “Yeah, you found me,” which means you’ve already got high intent, ’cause you found me, you’ve declared you’ve got a problem and you’ve said, “Maybe you guys can help solve it.”

Darryl Praill: So now it’s just a matter of, “Do you have your credit card handy? Is that one seater, 10 or 25? Oh, who signs off on the PO? Great, let’s get them involved. Boom, done, thank you. Have a great day.” Hands you off to customer success. But on ABM I felt like outbound. It’s a different world, now it’s like, “Okay, these are the accounts we want you to go after, and they may or may not have shown any interest. And we’re gonna market to them in a soften the beach a little bit, so then you can storm and take it.

Darryl Praill: But you’re on your own. We’ll give you tools we have, conversational intelligence, sales enablement, and you’ve got LinkedIn, premium navigator, whatever the hell you want to call it these days, then you’re a rock star, but you’re on your own. Go figure out who to talk to, who the buying committee is, why they care. And by the way, you’ve got to become an expert in that industry, and you’ve got to reorganize your entire day, ’cause now it’s all on you to immerse yourself in their life. You can’t just know your feature now, you gotta understand every single one of people you’re talking to. And let me tell you, a large portion of my test staff stumbled hard on this, some didn’t make it. And that’s a problem.

Darryl Praill: So, I thought let’s get the really smart people here who know what the hell they’re talking about, and tell me what I did wrong and what you my friends should be doing, if you’re in the middle of this transition, or you’re starting a job with a company who’s all outbound, or your outbound but you’re having perhaps less success than you desire. With that, let me introduce you to my good friend Mark Ebert. Mark is from 6sense. 6sense is as they call themselves ‘An account engagement platform,’ which I found interesting as a marketer, than not ‘An account based marketing platform.’ They’re an accounting engagement platform. So it’s interesting that an account engagement platform is talking to a sales engagement platform. Mark and I we’re just gonna engage. Mark, welcome to the show, my friend.

Mark Ebert: Darryl, thanks for having me. And I love the way you said that, ‘Engaging.’

Darryl Praill: It is engaging. It is totally engaging.

Mark Ebert: Got it.
Inside Inside Sales Podcast


Making Outbound Sales Work For You

Darryl Praill: Alright, so I shared with you my story. You’re eavesdropping, I’m sure. I’m gonna ask you point blank, the transition from inbound to outbound, is it just me, am I slow? Why is this so hard?

Mark Ebert: You got it, it’s hard. And we talk about this a lot. I mean, the one thing that that comes to mind first on why it’s so hard, is because the the B2B buyer is certainly in the driver’s seat. And when you’re an inbound shop, the seller is in the buyers seat, because they’re coming in to you, and you can dictate what happens. You can dictate what you talk about, whether or not you want to engage that person or somebody else.

Mark Ebert: And when you’re transitioning to an outbound motion, you’re realizing that you’ve lost all control of the process, and you’re trying to grab onto it. The buyers are well educated, and they don’t want to be educated by sellers. They wanna stay anonymous. They don’t wanna submit the form. They don’t want to engage in sales, and they wanna push you to the end of the process. And it’s so hard. And it’s a very real challenge, I think most outbound teams face.

Darryl Praill: So, does that mean I change how I approach selling, if I’m used to an inbound model? Or is this a combination that the buyer, because whether you’re inbound or outbound, I could posit that the buyers… If I know my ideal customer profile, I could posit, they probably have shared similar pains, because they fit the mold, they fit the profile that we’ve done our research on, therefore, is it me I need to change how I approach it, or is it truly you mentioned the buyers in control, which I love that, is the buyer different? Is just a control thing or are they physically different and how they think and approach it? Because to your point on inbound, they are seeking possibly your help. They’ve already crossed that mental hurdle. We’re an outbound, you’re the one disrupting their day and saying, “I wanna intrude and talk to you about my product.”

Mark Ebert: Yeah, right. Exactly and if we’re in the seller seat hopefully, step one is you really understand the problem you’re solving for your customer base, and that’s crystal clear in your head. That would be obviously a foundational thing you gotta know but then I think, to take it to the next level to start figuring out how you successfully go open opportunities on an outbound motion.

Mark Ebert: It’s understanding all of the assumptions that your buyer has about how to solve that problem that would lead them in a different direction, and reframing the right way to go tackle that problem that would get them to engage with you. So I think we at 6sense we just talk a lot about with outbound, you’ve got to develop a perspective, that is thoughtful, understanding that they’re thinking about how they gotta go solve their problem, and they don’t wanna talk to you about it, but we need to be game planning and understanding. Well, what’s our perspective on probably where they’re headed and why, and then if I need to change that course of direction, what is it that we need to get in front of them to help get us into a conversation?

Mark Ebert: So we talk a lot about really playing that movie out, hey, if they don’t hear from me, and we play this movie out, where are they heading to solve that issue? And do they even know that they have that issue? And then if they hear from me, and we have a new perspective on how to solve that, and we can hook them with an opportunity to have an engaging conversation to help them, you’re gonna be a heck of a lot more successful when you’re doing your outreach.

Darryl Praill: Okay, you just said something there. I’ve talked about this before in passing, but it’s always part of a bigger conversation and sometimes gets lost. I wanna stop here ’cause you’ve really hit on something that’s huge and I’ve experienced this exact same challenge with every single one of my reps. None of them are immune to this. So boys and girls, listen up for a second, okay? You said, I’m going back in time, know your product, remember that? Alright, I bet every single one of you know your product or your service right now, right? You’re like, “Yep, I can demo like there’s no tomorrow. I can whip off facts and features about our capabilities better than any sales engineer. I am a stud muffin rockstar.” Okay, great. You know your product.

Darryl Praill: Then you said, a couple points you said, “Know, the assumptions your buyer has about their problem. Know the assumptions the buyer has about their problem. So they’re assuming… So they recognize they have a problem, but they may assume it was caused by symptom A or symptom B and you may be approaching it from symptom C, that’s one example. Or they may be assuming it’s a personnel issue, not a process or technology issue. Or they may be assuming it’s a funding issue, or a combination thereof. It may be assuming it’s an external issue. You don’t know, and this is the thing, you can’t go in assuming that what you think is the same as what they’re thinking.

Darryl Praill: Keyword that Mark said there was assumptions. Then he went on and he said, “Outbound requires a thoughtful understanding and perspective about the issue versus your product.” That’s a really sophisticated way of saying, “You got to think about how your product helps solve their problem. You can’t just say, “My product has feature A, B and C, and assume that they’re gonna connect the dots, “Oh, feature B might solve my problem X.” You can’t even talk about feature B, that feature B is a conversation, two or three calls down the road. Right now we’re just talking about, what’s talk about X? How do you understand better about X and Y? Why do you think that’s a problem?

Darryl Praill: So discovery plays a really big deal to do that. And where is the buyer heading to solve an issue if they don’t hear from you as a sales rep? So they’re gonna head somewhere. And they may be fixing, they may have already said, “This is the solution. I’m going down that road.” And you’ve gotta go and open them up. All of this points to the one thing that I was alluding, to is the biggest challenge I see reps screw up on. With all love and respect kids, is that you don’t understand your buyer. For example, talk to me about Mark right now. He’s the Senior VP of sales at a high tech company that’s rolling high, they’ve raised some good funding, they’re got good valuations, they’re on a trajectory. I would assume with him it’s all about scale and resources and opportunity. I see he’s got some competitors in the space. I assume there’s some competitive back and forth there, and he and I have never met before today’s conversation so if I’m hitting any raw buttons here, Mark, it’s luck.

Darryl Praill: They could be an M&A strategy, that they’re looking to fill some holes because time is money, all this kind of stuff. Plus and when it comes on his role Senior VP of sales, not just the VP, Senior VP, so he sits on the executive committee, probably. He may report to the CEO, I’m guessing this, I’ve not looked this up ’cause he’s not a VP.

Mark Ebert: I do.

Darryl Praill: He’s a senior VP, there we go. So that means he’s probably looking at other process issues across the organization, not just sales. He has as much probably influenced invested interest in how marketing is performing, versus how customer success is performing, and at that round table, he can voice those concerns. He’s probably a trusted advisor by his peers, he’s probably got issues of sales rep. So you may have issues around, How do I ensure I have diversity? How do I have culture? These are all the symptoms, I’m guessing that he himself has to deal with. He probably doesn’t do a lot of the analysis, he probably has people come to him and say, “These are the analysis we’ve come up with, therefore, what are you gonna do about it?”

Darryl Praill: In other words, everything I’m doing to get in who is my buyer, if Mark was my prospective buyer, as in this case, has nothing to do VanillaSoft. I just said, “Who the hell is this guy?” And what are they living with every day? And what are the pains he is having? So if he’s got a pain around hiring and scaling, he’s got a pain about being accountable to the CEO, we know he’s got investors, so they probably have expectations, too. So if I could help him hit his… Maybe he needs to increase his conversion rate, maybe he needs more lead flow, maybe he’s not finding enough sales reps fast enough, maybe he goes into new markets, how do all of these situations apply to my product? And how I can help them solve those problems. That’s the assumptions he’s talking about. Mark, how did I do?

Mark Ebert: You got it? I mean, it’s a good deep diving to… You just did that in 30, 60 seconds. So it’s not that as a seller you need to spend days, thinking about this, right? You know your personas, you sell to, you should probably be able to have that, that mental download real quick of, “What do I think that they’re struggling with?” Pretty quickly, like you did in 30 seconds. And then where do I think, based on, they don’t know anything about what I have to sell, where are they probably headed to go solve those things. At 6sense we talk a lot about… We help companies build pipeline, just like you guys do. Right?

Darryl Praill: Yep.

Mark Ebert: And I hear from a lot of our newer reps, “Well, if they’re growing really fast, they don’t have a pipeline problem.” And I say, “Stop right there.” That’s not the case at all, right? You could be a rocket ship, tripling in size every year that the problem just shifts. So it’s not like, can we sell it? It’s my target to the board just tripled. And do you have pipeline to support tripling of your number? And when you jump into the head of sales mind and recognize, you’re probably already thinking, how am I gonna triple pipeline?

Mark Ebert: And where am I gonna get it? Well, I can hire a lot more people, I could hire invest in enablement, I can invest in technology, have you considered how your VanillaSoft or at 6sense What is the thing that they hear from us? And this stops them in their thought process around that is an approach I probably need to sit and learn about. And it sounds they’ve got something to share with me that would describe an approach to solving this. I don’t know yet or I’m interested given what they do for other similar companies and get them to stop, right?

Mark Ebert: And when we think of outbound motions, it’s getting them to stop wherever they are in their buyers journey. And they might not know anything, they might be hot down the path, and we got to get on the phone with them, but we often blow that first call because we don’t sit and have that conversation. We jump right to, what does our product actually do? And so those are one the biggest challenges with the transitioning to outbound without question. It’s hard.

Darryl Praill: So that’s the thing. Let’s recap… What’s your quick takeaway kids? It’s simple. When you’re doing outbound, there’s a good chance you’re interrupting them. They’re not seeking you out necessarily. So you need to understand who your target persona and come back to that word in a minute, your target persona, what’s their daily routine? What are they living and their challenges, all right? So the whole thing of, “Hi, Mark. I’m Darryl Praill with VanillaSoft, we’re a sales engagement platform, people who use us typically see a tripling of revenue, speed to lead, and shorter sales cycles. Can I show you?” I just talked about me.

Mark Ebert: Right.

Darryl Praill: And I’m hoping that he goes, “Oh, tripling revenue. Well, the board is on me to triple revenue.” Maybe he’ll connect those dots, but chances are he’s gonna go, “Yeah, go away. I’ve already figured that out.: Whereas if I’d said, “Hey Mark, struggling with high expectations from your investors? I might have a solution to help you achieve some those unattainable goals. I’m not saying that’s the right line, but you see how that message changed? So all of a sudden he’s like, “Oh, my, that’s personal. That’s personal to me, right?” So do you understand the life, not your product, not your features, the life your target persona is living? And I challenge you right now, hit pause, hit pause, rhyme it off, I’ll wait for you.

Darryl Praill: Okay, I’m not really gonna wait for you, ’cause I’m assuming you hit pause and there we go, but you get the idea. If you couldn’t rhyme it off, like I did with about Mark, then that’s your first step. Next step, you talked about personas. Not persona, Mark is a persona. As an SVP of sales in my ideal customer profile, what I just spewed off is related to his persona. But he said personas. Mark, personas reminds us that when you’re doing outbound, specifically outbound, because like you said, they haven’t come to you, you’re going to them. There are buying committees to be the next VP of sales. Could be a CFO, could be an internal user champion. In other words, current stats are anywhere between five and 10 people involved in the buying Committee, which means you need to know five in 10 personas.

Darryl Praill: So the biggest challenge, I have to do my outbound, especially ABM, was training my reps that they needed to understand not just the ICP of the target marketplace, and their customer, but the personas at each people involved in their buying committee. And they then needed to research who the hell these people were, and then they needed to reach out and talk to them, which most reps refused because if I go from talking to one person, the sales cycle might be a month. If I’m talking to five to 10 people, that’s gonna be a three to six month deal. I wanna avoid lengthening my sales cycle. That’s dumb. So, how do we convince sales reps that they need to understand buying committees, they can’t just sell to one person?

Mark Ebert: That’s exactly right. Accounts buy, right? And that’s why account based marketing that the whole ABM approach strikes a chord with so many companies. There are committees and one of the… I’ll just throw a quick tip, I think everyone could implement, assuming you’re working in a CRM that allows you to build a dashboard or a report.

Mark Ebert: And that is just… Instead of measuring how many accounts you’re reaching every day, or you’ve reached out to, focus on how many contacts within the account you’ve reached. And when we stood that dashboard up, we had a dashboard that we look at that says, “Hey, out of your territory, what accounts haven’t heard from you in the last 30 days.” And then we have another one that says, “Hey, inside your territory on average, how many contacts are we reaching out to?” And we know we have eight personas that we could sell to, get an opportunity started. But if you look, I mean, it makes me smile, because I sold for too many years too. It’s like you’ll go back and look and say, “I reach out to the same person over and over and over again, hoping for something masterful to happen.”

Mark Ebert: So we encourage people to hold yourself accountable to… You’ve got many opportunities to strike a chord, if you can and it’s the upfront homework of falling in love with the problem that you’re solving for you to those personas, getting them to stop in their tracks to say, “I think you have something valuable for me for a first meeting, and then track and monitor how well are we covering that buying committee. You’re gonna have a much higher opportunity, open rate.

Darryl Praill: Let me use an example here that all of you can relate to, I’m positive on this, and you’re gonna understand just how smart Mark is. Let’s make this about you for a second. You the sales rep. Let’s say you’ve got a deal on the line, and they wanna know, can your product do X? And you go, “Geez, I don’t know.” Hey, we’ve all been there. I’m not sure if we can do X or not. Can we do X? So what do you do? Let me guess, this is how that goes. If you can relate to this, put your hand up. You call up your buddy, the other sales rep, and you say buddy, can we do X? And they say, “I don’t know.”

Darryl Praill: Then you call a couple other buddies, “I don’t know, I don’t know.” None of the reps know. All right, so now you start what I like to call, dialing for yes. So now you pick up the phone or you use Slack or Teams and you reach out to a sales engineer. Can we do X? Well, I think we can do X but I’m not really sure, I haven’t asked that in a while, I have to look into that. “I need an answer now, can we do X?” I don’t know. All right. Now you go to product management. Can we do X? I don’t know if we can do X, then go to our the developer, your buddy, the developer in the back room you feed, you send a beer to once in a while. “Can we do x?” Yeah, we can do X let me, show you!

Darryl Praill: Now all of sudden you go, great Mr. Customer, we can do X. You went dialing for yes and guess what you just did, you talked to a whole bunch of different personas in your organization to try to get buy in, so you can succeed. Okay, flip it fricking around. It’s the exact same way, when you’re targeting your prospect. You wanna talk to that economic buyer, you wanna talk to that executive sponsor, you wanna talk to that user, you wanna talk to that champion, because some will be more receptive to your message than others, and then they will advocate on your behalf.

Darryl Praill: And here’s what you’re not understanding, when you have multiple people advocating your behalf, especially across multiple roles at apartments, the deal size goes up, it goes up. This is not about getting a deal done in a hurry, this is about increasing a revenue size, an ideal size, which increases your commission, which gets you even that much closer to your quota. So if your quota, I’m making this up, is a million dollars, and your average deal size is 50,000, you have to do 20 deals. But what if get your average deal size up to 100,000? I only have to do 10 deals, less than one a month. And all it took was getting a buying committee involved, that’s why you need to do that. You’re smiling Mark. I’m saying stuff. It’s resonating, yes, no?

Mark Ebert: You got it. Darryl, I add one other thing that we especially at 6sense, we’ve spent a lot of time focusing on talking about it in our messaging and everything, so we talked earlier about, hey, understand the different approach, you can make an assumption of where they’re at, understand how you can provide a different way of solving for that problem. But the third thing is understanding that everyone’s at a different point, in they’re what we call the buyers journey. And we often assume they’re all in the same place, right?

Mark Ebert: And then our messaging makes an assumption that they’re all maybe at the same, they recognize they have a problem. When many companies that are in your territory or on your list, they’re not even there yet. They’re totally under a rock as our CMO Latane says. And we gotta do a good job of understanding, are they under a rock? They’ve recognized a problem, they’re in the middle of seeking out a solution, they just haven’t talked to you yet. Are they about ready to buy?

Mark Ebert: And we’re getting in at the very end and the the approach you take has to be totally different, and your messaging has to be totally different based on where they are in their buyers journey. And we that’s the business where we help them understand where they are. But even if you don’t know where they are, your first mission is to understand, where are they? so that you’re speaking to them as though you’re not ahead of them, right?

Mark Ebert: And I think that’s a big mistake we make a lot. We assume that they already know that they’ve got X problem or that they’re looking into solutions, but they might not, so might as well ask them. And that whole concept of, do I know where they are in their buyers journey? Takes homework, takes time, but it also means we got a message differently, depending on where they are.

Darryl Praill: So again, Mark said earlier, stop making assumptions. Don’t assume they’re in their buyers journey, just like you don’t assume that what you think the problem is, is what the problem is. Just don’t assume that there’s only one person involved selling it to you. I love that point about understanding that every single prospect of yours, is gonna be at different spot in the journey.

Darryl Praill: So you have to adapt to them, all right? It’s not about them adapting to you, which to me reps make that mistake. I started off with talking about… This all manifested itself for me when we started rolling out ABM. So let’s end it on that Mark. Talk to me. The whole conversation was about inbound versus outbound. How does ABM play into us do better at outbound?

Mark Ebert: Sure. Well, I think it starts with sales leadership and the marketing team. Understanding when we actually… I’ll go back, one misperception is that ABM is only a certain set of accounts. And when we talk about ABM, we say that’s not ABM, Oh, that’s an ABM account, and that’s not. We hear that all the time and we cringe. When we think of ABM, we talk about our entire addressable market and running plays that’s gonna move them down the funnel based on where they are in their journey, like we talked about earlier.

Mark Ebert: And so back to what I was saying a minute ago, it starts with having a coordinated effort between the sellers up to the management and the marketing team understanding, Hey, if they’re at this point in the journey, what is our messaging and marketing? How are you helping sales? How are we messaging to go open opportunity? If they’re here, how does that messaging change? And if you’re a rep on this podcast, like my one of my recommendations, if you hear your company talking about ABM, you know it’s your responsibility to speak up and make sure you’re having that conversation around, well, we have our addressable market, we have our territories and if we’re gonna go open as much pipeline as we can inside those territories, what are all the things that we need to be doing, to be reaching those different people inside that buying committee?

Mark Ebert: And can I pressure test that those messages are accurate, right? So that we’re being relevant along the way. So I’ll pause there, but that first piece being that it’s a coordinated effort between the marketing and the sales leadership and sales reps, ABM isn’t just a set of accounts, it’s your entire addressable market and the whole idea is we gotta get everyone into the funnel in some way or another. And therefore, we gotta work on our outreach in all the channels that we can reach those buyers, making sure we’re meeting them with where they’re at, and getting them into conversations with us. That’s how we think in a minute about ABM when it comes to building an outbound strategy.

Darryl Praill: What I love about ABM in a nutshell, and you heard it in this whole conversation, is it’s a very intentional, coordinated pursuit of your ideal customer profiles. And it spans both marketing and sales, is not just marketing, sales reps thinking that you’re stupid, love you, but you’re stupid, sales reps thinking you’re the one who actually makes it all happen and marketing is just out there doing Pay Per click ads.

Mark Ebert: Right.

Darryl Praill: You’re wrong. I cannot emphasize that enough. More than anything in the world, it is something that genuinely creates a lot of alignment on the revenue organization. That’s how I view it, the sales and marketing but they’re the revenue team.

Mark Ebert: Sure.

Darryl Praill: And that’s the beauty of it. So if you’re in the middle of an ABM transition, or you started a job as doing ABM, you’ve done that before, there’s gonna be a few bumps in the road. If you’re managing from inbound to outbound, maybe you haven’t done ABM yet, but you recognize the need just to go to outbound, well, you know what? Learn from ABM, learn from vendors like 6sense and others, and all their advice and all their wisdom, consume all their content, I would strongly suggest you advocate to bring in a formal ABM vendor provider ’cause it provides not only the tools but a framework to make sure you do it right, which gives you the consistency.

Darryl Praill: But regardless, we’ve covered some amazing stuff here today, we talked about inbound and outbound, it’s hard, I understand it. The buyers changing on the outbound side, they’re in control, whereas an inbound brand, maybe you’re more in control. You can’t just know your product, you have to actually know the assumptions that the buyer has about their own problem, you need to know the life that the buyer is living, you need to disrupt their thinking sometimes and offer an alternative approach.

Darryl Praill: Sometimes your target buyer persona won’t be receptive to you, but there’s a buying committee involved. So if you can’t go in one door, you can go in another door or another door or another door. It is worth your time to do a buying committee ’cause it does increase both advocacy for your solution, versus something they might have had, dreamed up on their own or competitive offering. And it also typically increases the buyer side and the deployment, I’m sorry to increase the deal size and the number of seats being deployed. And hey, who doesn’t want more commission checks in upfront? How you differentiate yourself from how they’re thinking is really critical, right?

Darryl Praill: So you better be able to differentiate yourself. And also you need to help them understand what life would be like without you, all right? That sounds stupid. But you really need to do that. So that’s it. I want to hit up inbound versus outbound outbound. I’ll talk a little bit of ABM. It’s something I continue to live to this day. Almost every Friday morning, actually at 8 A.M Eastern, I spent an hour flat with Latane Conant, who’s the CMO at 6sense. And so I’ve heard it from her point of view, now I’m hanging out with Mark and his point of view.

Darryl Praill: So there you go. And just to make it even more interesting, ’cause you’re all thinking now you’re probably a 6sense advocate, I’m actually not a 6sense client. So why does that matter? It matters because I’m trying to teach you something here about inbound versus outbound, and about the power of ABM. Now, does that mean I may not be a 6sense client in the future? Well, now that I know the SVP, I can strike a good deal. So there we have it. With that said, check out Mark, follow him on LinkedIn. It’s simple. It’s in the classic That Mark with a K not a C as my cousin Mark likes to say C stands for cute and cuddly. I don’t know what K stands for in this case, Ebert, E-B-E-R-T.

Darryl Praill: Check him out, follow him. He’s awesome. Mark thank you for your time today. In the meantime, we’ve gone way overboard, but it was worth it because this is a great conversation. I look forward to talking to you all next week. In the meantime, have you checked out the new podcast 0 to 5 Million? Place to go for entrepreneurs trying to grow and scale, hosted by Shawn Finder and Ollie Whitfield. Check it out online. We think you’ll like it. My name is Darryl Praill. This my friends is another episode of the INSIDE, Inside Sales show. Take care.