INSIDE Inside Sales – Ep 91: The Benefits of Using Agencies for Hire

Image for INSIDE Inside Sales – Ep 91: The Benefits of Using Agencies for Hire

The road to success can be an arduous struggle. But you don’t have to do it alone – we’re talking success by sales outsourcing.

This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl welcomes the President of Virtual Causeway and literal rock star, Rick Endrulat. Darryl and Rick go over the common misconceptions regarding the outsource business model and show how hiring outside help can provide an invaluable advantage to any individual or business. They also discuss the clear benefits of accessing developed processes and systems from agencies who have the best specialists in their field. Hear how to achieve greater success with some outside help on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!

''What we do is we're matchmakers. We find people that are the right type of contact.'' 🎧 Listen as @rick_endrulat walks us through the road to success by sales #outsourcing. #insidesales Click To Tweet

 

LISTEN

WATCH


READ

Host: Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: Rick Endrulat, Virtual Causeway

 

Darryl Praill: You know, what’s interesting is, I’ve shared this before many a time, but for those who have never heard it before, allow me to share it again. I had my own marketing agency for almost a decade. And it’s interesting because I have had many people come up to me and they’ve said, “You know, Darryl, with all due respect and trying to not offend you, but you know, you’re a marketer. So how can you speak about sales if you’re a marketer?” And, you know, at the surface, I get it, and they’re not necessarily wrong. Yes, I’m a marketer. That is my full-time job. Now, ironically, in this particular case when I was a CMO of VanillaSoft, what we do is we sell to salespeople. Everything we do is about making salespeople successful.

Darryl Praill: So just like I tell you that you need to know your ideal customer profile, you need to know your persona. You need to know the very pains and issues and heartache that they’re struggling with. That means that I need to know the very pains and issues and heartaches that you as a sales professional struggle with as you strive to hit your quota. Your company strives to hit their number, and you need to do it again every single week, month, and quarter. So I wouldn’t be a very good marketer if I didn’t know the world you guys lived in. It helps that I did it before.

Darryl Praill: But again, circling back to the whole agency conversation, if I had almost a decade of being a marketer, doing a lot of marketing programs, should I really be talking about sales? Well, here’s the thing. Here’s what you need to know. Number one, my first and foremost job when I had my own agency, despite it being a marketing agency, was to be the Chief Sales Officer. That’s right. If I wasn’t selling, if I wasn’t cold-calling, if I wasn’t doing social media, if I wasn’t doing multichannel engagement, I wasn’t getting fed. That’s right, I was the Chief Sales Officer. Yeah, it doesn’t count cause it’s my own agency and I got a small collection of people who count on me to make sure they put food on their table every day.

Darryl Praill: But that was my job. I was Chief Sales Officer. And I made the same mistakes you find yourself doing now. I didn’t always optimize my time, I didn’t always commit to the prospecting. I definitely didn’t always do multichannel. I rarely asked for referrals, even though I know I should have. I often found great difficulty in establishing my value upfront, especially because, as a marketing agency, I’m a commodity. I’m like a lawyer or an accountant. There’s a million marketing agencies. So Darryl, and I love this question, why are you any different? Which, by the way, is no different than you getting a question about why you versus your competition. I would struggle with that, right? I would absolutely struggle with that. And I did my song and dance, as I’m sure you do.

Darryl Praill: But the reality is you gotta know that answer. And I got better over time and did the A/B testing and all the marketing stuff. So what’s interesting about that with me being Chief Sales Officer of my own marketing agency, well, it gets more interesting. One of the things that we did well at the agency was we aligned ourselves with a handful of actual business development firms. All they do is work with people like you or me. We pay them money and they go generate leads or appointments or whatever. Maybe they’re a sales and marketing agency. You know, they do the inbound activities, the blogs, the videos, the webinars, the direct mail pieces, the email blasts. And then they qualify the very leads that they’ve generated, the inbound traffic they’ve generated.

Darryl Praill: They’ve got themselves their own inbound lead engine. And then they try to turn those MQLs, those Marketing Qualified Leads, into Sales Qualified Leads, and then pass them back to their client. So what would happen often is when I aligned with those people is I would represent their firm. And I would be the marketing side. So they may not have had that marketing expertise, but they knew that they needed to offer that, cause their real strength was selling. So I would go under their umbrella and my firm would help do all the marketing stuff, and we would do it really as a joint venture, right? And it’s no different than bringing contractors in now. I loved it, it worked out well for the clients, it worked out well for me and for them. What did I learn in this process? That’s why I have this ramble.

Darryl Praill: What I learned in the process was a couple things. I learned that these agencies, despite what you might think, despite so many of them being absolutely atrocious at their own sales efforts, if I get one more standard template from these, especially the offshore companies asking for 10 minutes of my schedule in five minutes from now, I’m gonna freak out. These individuals, these organizations, for them to survive, you need to understand, you need to truly understand, unlike you, if you’re actually working for a software or a product company, they work on razor-thin margins. All right? If you get a lead and it doesn’t work out, you just move on to the next lead. Your paycheck still comes in. If they get a lead and it doesn’t work out, the client bitches and moans and whines and says, “I paid you for that. Go get me something better.” And they have to anticipate that. And then they have the same problem you have. They have turnover in staff.

Darryl Praill: And so how do they combat that issue? Well, here’s an example: In sales enablement and coaching, they have to have processes that are bulletproof if they’re gonna be able to onboard somebody new and ramp ’em up, think about that. Think about how long it took you to get good at your job. And these people have new customers every single day and they have to become as good or better than you are in a much shorter period of time because they’re paid by what they deliver, or they’re paid on a performance basis or what have you. So if you don’t have the processes down pat, my gosh, you are going to starve.

Darryl Praill: The thing that blew my mind away was just how out of alignment the expectations were of these people who would hire them. They wouldn’t treat their own salespeople this poorly. They would keep their team of three, five, 10, 20, 30 on staff in good times and in bad, and just say, well, it’s a bad number, but you know, two of them did really well so we’re gonna keep on doing this again. I’m not gonna cut any waste. But they’ll treat these outsource agencies with a ton of disrespect and they’ll just cut them like they’re a commodity. It’s crazy. I learned a lot, I learned a lot. I learned that, my gosh, if you wanna learn skills, sometimes you’re better off understanding and working for these firms than you actually are for an actual product, company.

Welcome Rick Endrulat

Darryl Praill: So I thought, you know, there’s a lot of misconceptions out there about these companies. There’s a lot of misperceptions about ourselves and our roles, and how kick-ass we are or we are not. So let’s use this as a moment in time to go and explore the other side. What’s it like when you’re a sales development agency for hire? How does it compare and contrast? So if I’m gonna work with them in tandem with my own in-house sales team, what do I need to know? So today, you may or may not take anything away from this that you can apply to your sales skills, but what you will take away is a better understanding of the other side of the coin. And you, my friend, will be a better, more complete salesperson. To do that, I wanna bring on my old client. His name is Rick Endrulat. He is the president of Virtual Causeway. They have offices in the U.S. and Canada, and they’re pretty kick-ass. I have a lot of time for Rick, even though Rick and I go way back and I think he’s a moron. So just on that front, Rick, come on. Good to have you on the show, my friend. He’s got lots of smiles on his face.

Rick Endrulat: Hello, Darryl. What a great introduction. What a great introduction, thanks, Darryl. I appreciate it.

Darryl Praill: Yeah, it ends with the, I think he’s a moron. So Rick–

Rick Endrulat: Yeah, thank you.

Darryl Praill: I wanted to bring you on, for those who don’t know, okay, so Virtual Causeway, one word, all right, just go there, virtualcauseway.com. And I’m gonna submit the question cause I’ve asked him this question 1,000 times, why Virtual Causeway? So I love this. Rick put a lot of thought into this. And Rick, tell me if I get it wrong.

Rick Endrulat: Okay.

Darryl Praill: A causeway’s essentially a bridge, if you will, that connects two landmasses. And in his example, he’s that virtual bridge between the customer, you know, you, if you will, and the prospect you wanna connect with. They’re your virtual causeway to revenue. How did I do? Did I get that right?

Rick Endrulat: You did great, Darryl. And in a lotta cases we’re actually the bridge between sales and marketing within our client base as well. Because, as we know, there’s a lot of disconnect between sales and marketing, and we help them get aligned sometimes.

Darryl Praill: I hadn’t even brought that up and there’s a lot of truth in that. And my gosh, there’s a lot. Do you find yourself often acting as counselor between the two groups? And is there a lot of acrimonies there sometimes?

Rick Endrulat: We do, we do. So, for those that don’t know, Darryl and I go, we worked together for many years in different capacities. And even going back to my early days where I was in sales and marketing within a large enterprise software company that I won’t name right now unless you want me to name it, I guess, Darryl, it’s now actually part of SAP. And even back in the late ’90s, early 2000s, the misalignment and the disconnect between sales and marketing was huge. And that hasn’t changed. We still see that with a lot of our larger companies that have very distinct sales and marketing organizations. And there’s still that big disconnect and still that lack of alignment, and a lot of what we do tends to bridge between the two.

Darryl Praill: So I won’t mention the company’s name, but I will say at the time, at the time when Rick was there and I was there as well, we were in different departments. I was in the cool department, he was in the I wish I was in the cool department. And the company was, it started off quite small and we got rolled up multiple times. And at the end, we were actually at the sixth largest software company in the world. So–

Rick Endrulat: That’s right.

Darryl Praill: We experienced rapid growth and it was something to say.

Why the bad rap?

Darryl Praill: That all said, there’s two things I wanted to specifically cover off today. So what I wanna accomplish is I wanna understand when should I use my in-house sales team versus when should I outsource? And I wanna understand can I do both at the same time? And we’ll get into that. The second thing I wanna do is I just wanna talk about the common misperceptions that people believe about the outsource business model, whether you as an agency or what your capabilities are. You know, there was a day when, and I think it’s much better now, but I know you and I have been doing this for a long time, when the whole idea of using an outsource firm was, they would use the term telemarketer, which–

Rick Endrulat: Sure.

Darryl Praill: It would always be the idea of a boiler shop, right? Where these were fly-by-night and they would just close up shop, and they were sketchy, sketchy, sketchy. And my experience is, in fact, that is the complete opposite. So why don’t we start there? You’ve been doing this for a long time. What have you seen over and over again about common misperceptions that people believe to be true about an outsource business development organization?

Rick Endrulat: Sure, so first of all, when we started, we started way back in 2001. So we’ve been doing this for a long time. And at that time, the word outsourcing was just a bad word. So having any of our clients even outsource or think about outsourcing a part of one of their business processes, especially a key part of their sales and marketing process, was pretty difficult. And we spent most of our time, from a sales standpoint, explaining why they should outsource and dealing with a lot of objections around that.

Rick Endrulat: Now, today, obviously, everybody is used to outsourcing and it’s less of an objection. But at the time, that was the biggest objection. You know, you mentioned boiler rooms and that’s the bad connotation around any kind of teleservices. And when I used to work at the enterprise company I worked at, the department was called actually Telemarketing at the time. And especially in Canada, there’s an even worse, you know, there’s a misperception around the whole concept of telemarketing and just the word is horrible. And it just screams businesses, or a consumer calling you when you’re at home and having your dinner, and trying to sell you a vacuum or something over the phone.

Rick Endrulat: So, you know, that’s always been a bit of a challenge. But with what we do, as you mentioned before, I mean, processes are a huge part of it. And in our organization, we focus so much on the processes so that with every new client that we onboard or that we engage with, we’ve got these developed processes, we have these developed systems, and we have the technology to support it so that we can actually work with multiple clients. And it really teaches our employees and our reps that are spending time on the phones or doing other kind of outreach or inbound or outbound marketing, it really teaches them a lot about the process and the theory behind it. And you know, we’re working with multiple clients at any one time and you get a ton of experience learning about what the best marketers are doing in North America at any one time. So that’s what I love the most about our organization is being able to talk and learn from all of our clients. It’s pretty cool.

Darryl Praill: And that’s huge. That’s one of the things you guys may not have thought about. So context, right? When your organization, Rick’s already talked about, you know, maybe you have a misalignment with sales and marketing and you need a facilitator to get going in between. But the reality is what you’re seeing, what you’re experiencing, how you sell, how you approach the market, that is one point of view only. Whereas a firm like Virtual Causeway has 10s or 100s of clients and can see those points of view, I’m sorry, can see those approaches, if you will, vastly different across different industries, different products, different services, different target audiences, different ICPs and different channels, different campaigns, different value props. So they truly get exposed.

Darryl Praill: This is the upside to working with an outsource agency. A good agency gets to see what works and what doesn’t work across a spectrum. And they can borrow from one spectrum and bring that over to this spectrum so they can learn what worked and what didn’t work, which often we lack in our own. Cause we get so into our own world that we often can’t see the forest for the trees. So even just working short-term, I have found, with an external agency, can open your eyes to possibilities you’d never thought of. I remember the biggest thing I saw all the time when I was working with you, Rick, and my agency was how many times people would push back on your ideas. And it would often be a case of, well, we don’t do that. You’re giggling already. Well, we don’t do that, you know, or we don’t ever do that. And you’re giggling, so why are you giggling?

Rick Endrulat: Well, I–

Darryl Praill: Share why you’re giggling.

Rick Endrulat: It happens all the time. Well, you know, so the interesting thing about, so the value of working with an outsource firm for any process, it doesn’t have to be business development, it doesn’t have to be sales or marketing, but any time you work with an outsource firm that has worked with lots of other companies, they can bring a certain amount of knowledge to the table that is beyond what your project is and beyond what you’re paying them for that project. Because they’ve got years of knowledge and they know what works, what doesn’t work.

Rick Endrulat: So there are certain clients that will onboard and you can just tell as we go through the process that they’re gonna have certain objections or they’re gonna have, they have certain preconceptions about what works, what doesn’t work and how they do things. And sometimes no matter how you stress that things should be done a certain way, there’ll be pushback. And it’ll be like, well, no, that doesn’t work for us. That doesn’t work for us. So then in some cases when you’re dealing with clients, you’ll say, okay, well, we’ll try it your way, but if it doesn’t work, then we’re gonna try it our way. And invariably, that’s what happens almost every time is that we end up trying to prove the model. Maybe there’s some success, maybe there isn’t. And then ultimately we end up doing probably something more similar to what we originally talked about.

Darryl Praill: What you’re not saying then, I wanna bring this to the attention, especially with the sales leaders onboard, is they’ll say, no, that doesn’t work for us, that doesn’t work for us, that doesn’t work for us. And then to your point, it doesn’t work. And then usually what happens is a sales leader would turn to you and say, “You guys suck. You’re not able to do this.” Is that a fair point?

Rick Endrulat: Well, I mean, I think the challenge that any outsource firm has or a vendor has is that you’re an easy excuse, right? So if somebody is not happy with how things are going, it’s easy to be a scapegoat and get blamed for that. So that’s why processes and data are super important in what we do. I mean, for us as a company, we don’t just do outsource business development. We, basically, I say that we’re a demand generation agency. We focus on sales, marketing, and market research services. So we have different lines of business and different types of projects we work on for our clients. On the B2B space, typically, some kinda complex sale. And we’re very data-driven.

Rick Endrulat: So when we do work on a campaign, and let’s say the campaign’s not successful, we have the data to back it up and we have the conversations to back it up. We have the quantitative and the qualitative data so we can take that back and not just be working on emotional decisions. We’re talking about something that’s very quantitative and we can say, hey, this will work, this won’t work. This is where we’re seeing some traction so let’s focus here. Maybe we need to change the ICP. Maybe we need to change your target market, whatever. But it’s very data-driven and we really focus a lot on the process. I mean, one of the things you were alluding to before, too, was leads, right?

Rick Endrulat: So when we’re dealing with our clients, they want us to generate leads. We’ll spend a lotta time upfront talking through and developing a lead scorecard saying, this is what a lead looks like. It could be an MQL, it could be something a little further along in the process. And we’ll come up with basically a service level agreement saying, this is what a lead will look before we hand it over to you. And every time we hand the leads over and especially with salespeople, and I’m a salesperson, I’m also a marketer, but you know, I deal with a lot of salespeople so I can say this: salespeople will say one thing but then when they actually get the lead, they’re actually expecting a deal. It’s not a lead, it’s a deal that they’re expecting. And that’s always a challenge.

Rick Endrulat: And it happens with almost all of our clients. And so once again, it’s setting it up for success upfront, coming up with a good lead scorecard. And that’s the thing that happens in organizations, too, between marketing and sales. Marketing hands leads over to sales, leads say they suck. And then, or sales says the leads suck. And then the marketers are saying, we gave you all these leads. How come you haven’t closed anything? I mean, that’s the disconnect that always happens between sales and marketing. So, hopefully, in a lot of cases where we help is that we nurture the leads, we move them further along, and then they’re more sales-ready. So at least then we’re bridging that gap between sales and marketing.

Darryl Praill: And that whole process of getting a lead definition and understanding the service level agreement that you have can then be given to the company. And after you’re gone and you’re disengaged, that’s when they can run between sales and marketing themselves. It’s odd, and that’s an example of you being a counselor. You know this is the way you gotta do it, guys. Let’s get you both sitting down in a room and then make sure we have an agreement on what we’re doing here. All right, we gotta go to a quick break. And then when we come back, we’re gonna rapid-fire. I’m gonna ask him a lot of really fast questions and let’s see if he can keep up with us. Don’t go anywhere, we’ll be right back.

Hiring a sales development agency

Darryl Praill: Okay, So we’re back. Now, let’s walk through a scenario. I am a sales development rep and my sales management has come to me and says, we need help. We’re gonna bring on this outsource sales development agency, like a Virtual Causeway, to help our cause. Are you a threat to me? Should I be worried that I’m gonna lose my job to your company?

Rick Endrulat: Well, I mean the short answer is, it depends. Depending on the organization, you know? We work with a lot of companies where we’re, actually, we supplement their internal team currently. So, I mean, we’re not brought in as a replacement. We’re brought in as maybe something to be the front end of the process, or we’re working on a specific product or a specific geography. And we handle that while their in-house team handles everything else. And we’re generating leads and feeding their in-house team. A lotta times, probably half of our clients, we’re actually working in conjunction with an in-house team that’s doing sales development or inside sales. So we’re certainly not a replacement in those cases. And really in a lot of those instances, people are actually just looking for us as a way to scale up quickly. So they already have an existing team. They’re managing their team. They need to grow so they wanna bring us on to help get them up the ramp. And then they might bring it back in-house completely or they might keep us working and have us working parallel.

Darryl Praill: What should I expect, when I get a lead from you, I’m asking you as a professional sales development firm, what should I expect as a rep from you? And if I don’t like what I’m getting, what should I do? How’s that relationship look?

Rick Endrulat: Okay, so feedback is important, obviously. So at the beginning of the campaign, working really closely to really define that lead, come up with that lead scorecard and have the lead scoring criteria so that you know before anything actually gets to you, as a sales rep, that it’s gonna meet certain criteria. It could be as simple as BANT criteria, you know, Budget, Authority, Need, Timeline, or it could be something a little more complex. But ultimately, you know that there’s gonna be a baseline and there’s gonna be a scorecard that we’re comparing things against before we hand it over. When we hand it over to you, in some cases for our clients, they, depending on how much bandwidth their internal team has, we may just be handing over a contact name saying, hey, this person’s interested. Here’s some of the qualification criteria, follow back up with them.

Rick Endrulat: They’ve consumed a piece of content or there’s been some kind of way to do a warm handoff. Other clients want us to nurture the leads for a bit longer and actually generate and to hand it over in terms of a conference call or some sort of a demo or something like that where that’s the handover. So, depending on the client, it’ll differ. But what they need to, really it’s a matter of getting the leads, you compare it to the scorecard. If it doesn’t meet the scorecard for some reason, you need to feed that back to whoever your vendor is, if it’s us or if it’s somebody else, and see why.

Rick Endrulat: Because we’re not gonna get better unless we get that feedback from you. And the more feedback, the better quality. And sometimes people will engage with an outsource firm for any process once again. They’ll engage with an outside firm and they don’t put the time into training and providing that closed loop of feedback, because for some reason they just think that it’s a matter of just start them, they can go, they can do what they need to do, and I don’t ever have to talk to them again. But for us to be successful, we need to be working, we need to be an integrated part of your overall plan.

Success by sales outsourcing: What it means for sales reps

Darryl Praill: All right, let’s talk about what you expect from the sales rep, cause this is not just a one-way street. And I’ve seen this before, so I’ll lead you a little bit here and then I know you’ll run with it. I know one of your biggest complaints, laments, concerns, is even though you’ve had all this agreement with management when you pass the leadoff for the reps to follow up, often this is what you experience.

Darryl Praill: You experience the rep taking a week or two or more to follow up, sending an email, maybe making a phone call, and giving up, and then rejecting the lead and saying, or maybe they get a hold of them finally, three weeks, four weeks later, and the lead says, who are you? I didn’t even know who you are. I don’t remember who you are and I’m not interested. So said another way, what is my accountability to you, the paid vendor, so that you’re successful, so that my company’s successful, so ultimately you’re doing your job well, I will actually get quality leads and I will make sales.

Rick Endrulat: Right. Well, so the thing to remember, first of all, is that as a vendor, we’re getting paid to generate these leads. So you need to treat them with the right amount of respect. So you’re paying money for good leads. And just because somebody says, yeah, I’m ready to talk, doesn’t mean that they’re gonna, they’re going to be aggressively following up with you as a sales rep to have you sell to them. You still need to put the effort in. So that means putting an effort to follow up by phone, by email, multiple touch points. In most cases, somebody’s interested and there’s real value that they’re seeing, they will respond, but sometimes you need to keep working.

Rick Endrulat: Because if you’re targeting somebody that’s a decision-maker, especially in different types of industries, they get busy and you need to still work them, even though they’ve already expressed some interest. When you think of the demand waterfall or the sales funnel, I mean, we work with everything from the top of the funnel down to middle, lower funnel. And depending where you’re at in terms of the buying process and the type of, and your ICP, it can require more follow-up or require less. But as a sales rep, you need to really work these leads and get them. And just because somebody, and when you do speak to them, once again, they don’t have a purchase order ready for you, you still need to sell them. What we do is we’re matchmakers. We find people that are the right type of contact. You know, they match your ICP. They match your company. We’re just opening the door, we’re getting you in the door, and then you still need to sell.

Darryl Praill: So you need to think of this, folks. Marketing gives you leads, that’s one bucket. Virtual Causeway, a sales development firm, gives you leads, that’s another bucket. Maybe marketing gave you inbound, Virtual Causeway gave you outbound, but in both cases, they’re stakeholders. They want you to succeed, but it’s incumbent upon you to follow up quickly, follow up persistently and to actually use proper messaging and everything else. They’re not gift wrapping this for you. If you don’t do your part, the whole process breaks down. And I gotta tell you just working with Rick over the years, that’s the number one thing I saw happen over and over again. The salesperson broke the process when ironically, they could have made a lot of money. Cause I know, Rick, talking to you over and over again, you had reached back out to those rejected leads, and nine times out of 10, they were like, well, yeah, but we talked a month ago, and I just talked to the guy yesterday and we’ve made a decision already.

Rick Endrulat: I love it when a sales rep says, oh, you gave me this lead, it sucks. They never got back to me. I reached out a bunch of times, they didn’t get back to me, I can’t reach ’em. And then one of my team will pick up the phone and within 20 minutes to an hour, they’ll actually get the person on the phone and say, hey, you ready to talk? And it’s just, you just have to be persistent. You have to be persistent. You can’t expect that people are waiting to talk to you. And that’s, as a salesperson, you should never expect that.

Darryl Praill: Okay, let’s shift gears for a second. I’m early in my sales career. Will I learn more working for you, cause you have multiple clients and multiple industries than I would working for a single company? One, maybe VanillaSoft, to use an example. In other words, are you a viable path for me to get into the sales game and to refine my sales skills? Are you maybe even a better path for me? Clearly, I know you’re biased, but I gotta ask the question. Talk to me about that as a career path.

Rick Endrulat: Sure, well, obviously I’m biased, but one of the things that I love about this company and I love about what we do is that you do get a great cross-section of understanding everything that’s going on in the market, and seeing what good marketers are doing and what good salespeople are doing. You work with multiple clients. It’s like working for a marketing agency. You learn a lot about a lotta different things. So it’s great from a foundational standpoint. And with us, I mean, there’s only a certain amount of career path within the organization, but we’ve had a lot of our reps that have started off working for us, worked here for a few years, learned as much as they can, and then they’ve worked for some of our clients. And we’re fine with that, you know. And with some of our clients, we actually get very engaged in terms of developing career path for our existing employees that ends up at our clients. And we hear it over and over again that the people that they get from our organization are better at qualifying, are better at a lot of the early-stage activities that really help salespeople be successful.

Darryl Praill: So I will back that up. I’ll actually share that we’ve got several sales professionals on the VanillaSoft team that have come from our sales development partners that we use. I’ll also share that we actually still use external sales development organizations like a Virtual Causeway, even though we’ve got a kick-ass sales team with a kick-ass sales engagement software, all right? And it’s exactly for the reason Rick said. We’re able to use them in specific areas to either open up new markets or really expand in certain markets or just simply help make sure that our account executives have too many leads, that could be really wanting maybe to tackle a beachhead really, really fast.

Darryl Praill: So all that said, I wanted to kinda bring that conversation to the table today, cause that’s not something you guys talk about much in the sales world, talk about how to be a better salesperson. But I wanted to open your eyes a bit to the bigger sales processes. Rick, thank you for joining us today. Everybody, that’s Rick Endrulat. He’s a hoot to follow on LinkedIn. He’s active on Twitter. He’s also on Instagram. What I haven’t told you is this guy is an actual rock star. All right, he’s appeared onstage with many a big band. He wields a kick-ass guitar. He’s got a huge guitar collection, but guess what? We rock the INSIDE Inside Sales Show. My name is Darryl Praill and that does it for another week. We’ll talk to you soon. Take care, bye-bye.