INSIDE Inside Sales – Ep 108: Is Cold Calling a Numbers Game?

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There is no shortage of opinions when it comes to cold calling, but is it just a numbers game?

This week on INSIDE Inside Sales, Darryl welcomes David Walter, best-selling author of The Million Dollar Rebuttal. Darryl and David discuss the many aspects surrounding cold calling, from the roles that should be responsible to where your leads should come from. They also share the many secrets to making more quality appointments that are highlighted in David’s book. Learn how you can make better and more successful cold calls on this episode of INSIDE Inside Sales!

''The name of the game is contacts, baby. Contacts'' 🎧 Listen as @LeadGenSecrects explains why acing your cold calling strategy has nothing to do with numbers. Click To Tweet

 

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Host: Darryl PraillVanillaSoft

Guest: David Walter, The Million Dollar Rebuttal

 

Darryl Praill: Oh, my goodness. How is everybody doing today? Any new and exciting happening in your life this week folks? Are you working hard? Or as the classic line likes to say, “Are you hardly working?” You know, isn’t that a great question? I love that line. “Are you’re working hard or, are you hardly working?” Because what I’ve learned with age, not that I’m old, let’s be clear on that. I am not old, I am spry. Yeah, let’s go with that. What I’ve learned with age is that I look at people around me who are successful and I see, I see kind of 2 camps of people. I see the 1 camp where they just work their butts off. They are nonstop. Nonstop – go, go, go, go, go. And then I see the other camp where they seem to spend half the day on the beach, or reading or walking or hiking and yet they’re hitting massive numbers.

Darryl Praill: And for me, I find that second camp annoying as hell. And I think the reason I find it so annoying is because it’s either like they’ve stumbled onto this magic fountain of knowledge or opportunity where the money just comes to them and they don’t have to work for it, or I’m doing something wrong. Because I’m in the first camp. I work nonstop. In fact, I was on a call this morning with a partner and they made a comment to me that I seem to be getting on a regular basis anymore which probably it’s meant as a compliment but it’s probably, it’s probably a warning sign.

Darryl Praill: And what I hear is like, “Dude, I don’t know how you do it. Like you’re on social media, nonstop, you’re making content, nonstop like you’re everywhere. I see your name, like carte blanche. How do you do that plus be the CMO at VanillaSoft. Like, how do you do all that? Like, holy smokes you’re everywhere. I can’t do what you’re doing. I would find that exhausting. And you talk all the time. Talking nonstop, that’s gonna be… Like, I’m an introvert. When I talk nonstop afterward, I just wanna collapse. And yet I know you’re doing these multiple productions a day. Whoo! You’re everywhere. You’re working hard.” As opposed to hardly working Darryl. And there’s a lot of truth in that but I gotta be candid with you. I’m actually really, really jealous of those people who do not perhaps put the same amount of activity in that I do, and get far better results.

Darryl Praill: And I covet their success. I want to know what they’re doing. And I see this as a recurring theme whether it’s in marketing or sales… You know marketers, we gotta send more emails, we gotta do more webinars, we gotta be on social media more, we gotta have more followers, we gotta have a bigger list. We need more, we need more, we need more. I see it in sales. You only did, you only did 50 calls today, I need you to do 70 calls a day, 90 calls a day, a hundred calls, 200 calls a day. That’s what you need to do. Then you’ll hit your numbers. It’s a numbers game. It’s a numbers game. You ever fall into that trap? It’s a numbers game where you, you just think if I just did more. I got up earlier. I see this all the time. I finally have learned to get up at 3 in the morning and now I can meditate and I can do my workout. And I can be you know, at my desk at 5 o’clock.

Darryl Praill: So I’m calling Europe. And then you know, by 9 in the morning I can call the East Coast and I can work and I can do the West Coast, you know, and then I can, you know, keep ongoing. I can do Asia and I can work super long hours. I managed to get it all in and I had no life. And I’ve gotten fat because I don’t get any chance to get away from this phone and this desk and there you go. I see it both. And I see camps on both sides. So what’s the right answer? Where do you go from here? I have this conversation all the time with, with us, me and my colleagues here at VanillaSoft. You know, they’re saying, “Darryl we need more leads.” And I’m saying, “Well do you need more leads or do you need better quality leads? What if I gave you fewer leads, but more quality wouldn’t that be better? Huh?” Now you can actually really invest time and a whole account base, you know, selling and marketing tactic.

Darryl Praill: You have time to research it and really get to know your people and navigate the accounts, as opposed to just me, you know, hammering the phone and the email and social media touches. Quantity versus quality. And it’s an age-old thing. And we all seem to fall back on quantity, right? When it’s not going our way we need to do more. I am wired that way. I need to do more. Need to do more. Need to get up earlier. Sorry honey, I can’t go for that walk with you. Sorry kids can’t play with you cause I gotta get up early in the morning cause I gotta go and need to do more. It’s not scalable. Are you sitting listening to this? Am I, am I hitting some inner guilt feelings a complex that you may be suffering because you’re like, “Yeah, dammit, Darryl. That’s my life. That’s where I’m at. And I think if I just do more then I’m gonna get that shiny object that I’m striving for and then I can provide better for my family or I can buy myself that, that cool trinket I really want or I can save for my retirement.”

Inside Inside Sales Podcast
 

Welcome David Walter

Darryl Praill: See here’s the thing. What you need to know, it’s whether it’s work smarter not harder, it’s quantity, not quality. Do I track activities or do I not track activities? I’ve heard people say it over and over again. “Darryl, when it comes to cold calling it’s just a numbers game.” So you wrap this all up and I said, “I need to speak on this. Who, who, who is the right person that I can speak to?” And that’s when I recognize that Amazon’s bestselling author, David Walter. If you don’t know David he’s the best-selling author of The Million Dollar Rebuttal. He is out there in his book where he explicitly says, “Cold calling is not a numbers game.” So that, my friends, is why I bring to you right now, my good friend, David Walter. David, welcome to the show. How are you doing, sir?

David Walter: Fantastic with an introduction like that. I gotta hire you all the time to go introduce me everywhere.

Darryl Praill: I love it

David Walter: You got the emotion. That’s the key. You got, you hit the nerve of the emotion and that’s when people listen.

Darryl Praill: It’s raw, it’s real. Like, you know, I know this, I live this. My wife frets and worries about me and the activity I keep. My doctor worries about me and yet I know I’m still held accountable. And if I don’t do the right activities, I don’t get retained as an employee, which is gonna affect my ability to provide for my family. So I have this circular logic. And when I saw the title of your book, “Cold Calling Is Not a Numbers Game”, I’m like, dammit! I gotta get David on the show. So I have to ask you, if those who don’t know, those who don’t know, okay? David ran a call center for 13 years. And when he was doing that, he was doing like 15 appointments per day. So he understands the whole idea. I mean, I think about a call center. He gets activity. He understands how to set up appointments. So everything he’s done here is based on his own experience. But I have to ask you, David, what was your catalyst for writing this book?

David Walter: What’s, it’s interesting cause I’d wanted to be an author all my life. And basically, you have to be an expert in something. And when I, when I, what got me into running my own call center was working at a company that detailed the book CSI where I did set 15 appointments every day for 6 months setting over 1800 appointments. When everyone else in the company in the call center set 2 appointments a day. The catalyst for me doing that was I helped my dad make a million dollars in HVC business. And then he went bankrupt when we hit the nineties recession. I had to go find a job. I found this job and I, I was gonna try to make enough money to buy up land for my parents to get a house. You know, they were living with me. That was my motivation for actually setting 15 appointments a day.

David Walter: The motivation for writing the book was, I realized when I walked away from that job and I started my call center, I didn’t realize what I had done. I had actually revolutionized the concept of cold calling and I didn’t realize it. And then all the while I ran my cold calling center lots of people didn’t wanna pay my price. It was like $10,000 a month for it to have my team cold call for them. And they would try to get my secrets and I would just hold them close to my vest. And I realized when I decided that I want to write a book that I wanted to be an author. That was something that was a game-changer that I didn’t realize way, 30 years ago, that I’d done. If I’d realize 30 years ago what I’ve done, I would have written this book 30 years ago. So it’s a game-changer even today.

David Walter: And that’s why I put that. You know, I put that cold calling is not a numbers game on my book is because even till this day, 30 years forward, most people still think cold calling is a numbers game. And that’s what resonated with people. Most, in fact, that title when I put it on some ads on different things is what drove it to become a number one bestseller.

Darryl Praill: This is probably the biggest – if I look over the course of my career, and I’ve been both a head of sales and a head of marketing multiple times, I saw I had been on both sides of the fence. And if I look at my career, when I was a sales guy I would always say to marketing, “You’re not giving me enough leads.” And when I was a marketing guy I would always say, “What do you mean you need more leads? What is wrong with the leads I’m giving you now?” The topic on it being a numbers game or not being a numbers game is I think foundational to the struggle between sales and marketing being aligned and towards sales being successful.

Darryl Praill: So now, since you wrote it, so you, I find it so interesting that you said, you know, “My clients would wanna know my secrets and I’d hold it close to my vest.” But then you turn around and you wrote this wonderful book that said, “Okay, I’m not gonna hold it close to my vest anymore.” So let’s just tackle that right away. What changed? Why did you go from, “I’m not gonna give you my secrets,” to, “I’m gonna put it out there in print and for the whole world to see?”

David Walter: The reason why is because when I ran my call center I realized after running it, I read a passage from The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. And he said, “Have you found yourself at the top of your ladder leaning against the wrong building?” And I realized that the call center that I ran while I was successful, wasn’t really having the impact that I wanted. And, and I changed careers. But what I wanted to do is I realized that companies should do their own cold calling and salespeople should be the ones to do the call calling, not the people I hire because when you when I go and hire people, it’s, you’re dealing with the bottom of the barrel people that wanna cold call you know, for, you know, $70 an hour. They’re not the highest quality people, they’re not the smartest people necessarily. And that that’s a problem. And then there’s no job, no hierarchy. There’s no movement.

David Walter: That’s it. It’s a manager me, now I have a few other positions but it’s a dead-end job basically. Whereas salespeople can use it. They can, a company that is has a sales organization but has many departments can bring in people and pay them less to be pre-sales and then move them up into sales and management, all these other things. So you can actually track better quality candidates. And it’s, cold calling requires a salesman. You’re gonna talk to a CEO, a controller and persuade them to set an appointment. That’s almost harder than the actual selling. Believe it or not. And I’ve done like you said, I’ve done both. I’ve done sales, I’ve done setting appointments. That’s harder and requires more sales skills, believe it or not to do that. And that’s why I wanted to basically give this out to people so they could stop hiring cold calling companies and try to do it internally and have salespeople do it.

Darryl Praill: So that is, that. I love that story. I love it, cause what I love about it and this is what I love about the sales committee. This is the same reason we do this podcast as an example and we do so much content at VanillaSoft. Is because we wanna share with the tribe. We wanna share what we’ve learned. And I mean, I’ll be the first one to tell you for all those who are listening. There is many people we have on our shows and I listened to a nugget or a piece of advice or a tactic or a strategy. And I go, “Damn, you know, we’re supposed to be the experts here. And we’re not doing that.” And I turn around and I go on it and I implement it. And I see great things at the company. And I’m like, “Wow.”

Darryl Praill: And you know, I didn’t pay anything for that. It was just what we do as a tribe. And so that’s, you know, David I feel like I’m a kindred spirit of yours. Okay, we’re gonna do, let’s do this. We’re gonna get into it folks. Like we’re hard and fast. He’s gonna talk to us everything about what he, what it means, what the secret sauce is. In the end, we’re gonna give you exact, actual recommendations on how you can apply it to your calling tactics. He’s gonna share this with you. We’re gonna go on a commercial break. You have 1 or 2 options you can do. One is you can sit back and listen to it. Or 2, you can go to Amazon and check out his book and put it in your cart and you can buy it. So there you go. We’ll be right back.

The Pursuit of Happiness analogy

Darryl Praill: All right, let’s get into it. I know you, I don’t wanna give away anything. So I’m gonna kind of set the stage. I’m gonna prompt you and then you just run with the ball. So here we go. I know you like to draw an analogy to the movie, Pursuit of Happiness. I’m gonna soon to stop. I’m gonna pass the ball over to you.

David Walter: All right. Well, in The Pursuit of Happiness I hope everybody in the audience has seen that. If you haven’t go watch it immediately. One of the most impactful movies I’ve ever seen about drive and determination in, in an insurmountable obstacle. But anyway, there’s a clip on YouTube, and if you put in The Cold Calling Pursuit of Happiness you’ll find it on YouTube. And what it does, it details Will Smith, the character he’s playing that actually went through all that. He’s trying to become a broker and he’s not being paid. He comes in late cause of his child, he has to take over, she’s an only, he’s running, he’s in charge of the son has, the mother’s gone. But anyway, so he just, he describes how he comes in late. And because of that, he can’t get to the top of the list. They have lists in that brokerage firm and they go from the bottom to the top. Each name. And I’ll get into that in a minute.

David Walter: But he can’t get to the top, he still, he doesn’t drink water, doesn’t go to the bathroom, all this stuff, he still can’t get to the top of the list. And he needs to get to the top. And so what you see the pivotal moment that I want you to focus on when you watch that video, is right when he wraps that speech up he’s looking at his list and he sees he’s called these companies, and he starts eying the top of the list. Oh, if I could only be at the top of the list. And he just, he starts moving his pins, skipping over leads. Skipping over leads goes to the top. Walter Ribbon, the top lead. He circles it. He calls, he gets Walter in. He has an appointment with Walter. And of course, Walter is a no-sale. But, being persistent he actually goes to his house one day, he gets invited to go to a game. And at the game, he networks with all these people that ended up buying and buying from him. And he becomes, he wins.

David Walter: Spoiler alert. He becomes a broker. But what would glean from that is that he was random. He stopped doing consecutive calls. He was consecutively calling and went to a random move. And that’s, really what is the numbers game? The numbers game is, there’s lots of ways where things are a numbers game. So just to cut this out and make it very clear. When you’re calling, when people say it’s a numbers game, they’re talking about whether you have a CRM of a hundred leads loaded in there or you have a list of a hundred names that you have to call all hundred. What they do is they call consecutively and they go through their list and call everybody in the list. They try to make hundreds of calls a day. That is a numbers game. Why it’s wrong and why it’s almost an insane idea is because it doesn’t grasp the concept, what you learned in that, in that movie is that random.

David Walter: You see, if you, if you could visualize your list and you, by each, each list would be marker color that would change from yellow, green, red. Green being a great time to call. The guy’s there waiting. As you call and you go through from the bottom of the top, it’s red, red, red, red. They’re not in, not in, not in. Once you pass and you, you get on like the 10th, 11th, 12th lead, the first and second lead actually starts showing green. In other words, what I’m saying is when you were calling and they say the person’s on the phone, they’re in a conference call, they’re at the bank, there at the office, they’re telling you the truth. These people are moving around, they’re dynamic.

David Walter: And if I just make one call to that person likely I’ll miss that contact. And so what the, what the numbers game concept is that you’re going to miss most of the people just by making one pass and one call to a hundred companies. When you need to make multiple calls to that company. What I, what I often say is that if I, if I if you gave an assistant or someone else, not a cold caller, a task and say, “I need to go make contact with somebody important.” A vendor of ours, my lawyer, someone important. My, you know, somebody important like that in charge of a large organization. You wouldn’t imagine, Darryl that they would just make one call, pick up the phone and say, “Yeah, Darryl wants to meet with you.” So-and-so. No. Most likely they would have to make several calls, email, texts to get in contact with that person. Does that make sense?

Darryl Praill: It does.

David Walter: Yeah. And so same thing. So what we’re doing is we’re setting the wrong goal for people. We’re saying, “Go make hundreds of calls a day.” What does a call going to get you? Nothing. The name of the game is contacts, baby. Contacts. I wanna know, when I had my call center I want to know, don’t tell me how many calls you made. How many contacts did you make? Right? A contact is the only thing that could lead to an appointment and the sale and the pipeline. And so what we should be telling prospects, I mean our employees, salespeople, SDRs, BDRs is go make contact. How many contacts did you make today? Not how many calls.

Darryl Praill: I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. I’ve had this conversation many times where I’ll say to people, “I think that the numbers game is wrong because it shouldn’t be about the number of calls you made.” I’ll use the word, how many conversations did you have today? Cause that’s really what I care about. But am I saying the same thing as what you’re saying?

David Walter: Yeah. A contact would be with the decision-maker, and you had, you talked to them.

Darryl Praill: Correct.

David Walter: Darryl, how’s it going?

David Walter: My name’s David. I’m with Million Dollar Rebuttal. You know. That was a contact. Now it could, it could end there or it could become a long talk or it could become an appointment but still that’s your pool of possibilities.

Cold calling the right way

Darryl Praill: Okay. So if cold calling is not a numbers game as you’re saying it’s and that’s why it’s wrong. The example you gave. It’s more about how many contacts make conversations you have with actual decision-makers. Then give me, tell me what I’m doing wrong in my current approach. Or said another way, how do I, you know I’m sure every person listening to me right now says, “Well obviously I wanna have those conversations. That’s why I’m doing this.” So what am I doing wrong, or what do I need to do to have those conversations with those contacts?

David Walter: Well, correct. But just to give them confidence, when I set 15 appointments a day, the only way that was possible is, I started making 40 contacts a day. 40 contacts a day. And I did that by applying this principle. And that’s, so it’s, you have to do that. It’s absolute. You have to dramatically if you’re gonna set more appointments, you can only do that by dramatically increasing the number of contacts you have. And so to get to answer your question, the way you do it is counter-intuitive. The reason why people aren’t doing it the way that I’ve prescribed is that they’re afraid of burning the lead. Basically, you have to call more times, it’s that simple. Call more times. In the Steve jobs movie, when Mark Mercola shows up there and he says, “Yes, you called my, this other gentleman.” He says, if you listened, he says, “You called him a hundred and fifty times.”

David Walter: Now I’m not advocating that you call somebody a hundred and fifty times. But the point is you have to dramatically increase the number from one only to multiple. And I specifically prescribe to call 3 times a day for up, one lead. You need to call like in the morning, in the afternoon, you call that 3 different times for 3 days, 3 to 4 days. Now, why won’t you, why do I say you won’t burn that lead? If you do what most people do is they call and make this glorious announcement. My name, my company, and the first and last name of the person I’m trying to get a hold of. Which is another topic, it all screams salesman, it creates gatekeepers. I remembered back to when I was a distributor taking calls for security products. And I remember vendors would call in, all these different types of people call in and be like, “Hey, is Steve around? Can you try this line for me? Call from Bob.”

David Walter: These simple things. That’s how you’re supposed to call. “This is Dave I’m calling for Darryl. Is Darryl in today?” I’m calling, is Darryl, Darryl’s probably gone for the day. You know, that, that kind of thing. They don’t even know what company I’m calling from. That’s the whole idea is you can call like that in that way multiple times and not get caught. They don’t, they’re not gonna remember how many Bob’s called them that day, right? Probably 5. They’re not gonna remember. What happens is if you keep calling past 3 to 4 days, they start to remember your voice and they start to out you and then they’ll remember you and you’ll be burned. Don’t call anymore. The other thing you do is you don’t leave voicemails every time you call. You’ll agree with me, Darryl. If I called and left a voicemail for you, it would be my, I would have to stop calling until give you time to listen to that voicemail and call me back. If I call the next day with another voicemail and the next day with another voicemail you would get irritated, correct?

Darryl Praill: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, in a big way. Yeah, yeah.

David Walter: Yeah. So if you don’t do that, right? If you don’t leave voicemails and you don’t make a big production, just, “Hey, this is David. Try Bob’s line for me.” You won’t burn the lead and you can increase the times that you call and make more contacts. Simply so, in a way it is a numbers game but it’s calling more records, less times, not calling more records fewer times. Does that make sense?

Darryl Praill: It does make sense. Let me draw some parallels here. Tell me if I got this right. So instead of doing a hundred calls a day, that’s a simple number. You’re saying, so a hundred calls a day is, is really a hundred contacts. A hundred, you know, individuals. You’re saying I call forty individuals a day, and those individuals I’m gonna call three times. So on that simple math that’s actually a hundred and twenty calls in the day I’m making. I’m just calling those individuals three times, theoretically. So I’m calling a smaller number.

Darryl Praill: So I have more bandwidth to call them more frequently and increase my likelihood of connecting with them as opposed to going through and calling them once and giving up. And this is what we see over and over again. People who use CRM, treat the tool like exactly like what Dave is talking about. I’m just gonna call them once and never try it again. That’s why we see on average people make 2 to 3 call attempts and they give up and those 2, 3 call attempts are usually spread out over weeks and then they just stop.

David Walter: Right.

Darryl Praill: So they have, and that’s the issue there overall. The other part you’re really saying, no, there’s a sidebar there where I can’t remember who it was I was talking to. I think it, I wanna say it was Michael Pedone. He told a story recently when he first started calling they had phone books in those days. He was given a phone book his first job, he says, and they start dialing. And what he did was he jumped right away to the middle of the phone book to the M’s because he knew all the new reps started at the A’s. So the ABCDEs just got harassed nonstop with calls and they all gave up before they ever got to the Ms. So he started calling with the Ms and he just did the same thing. Right? And he, he, he would do, I’m gonna do M N O and P today. And that’s it, I’m making that up. You get the idea. And that had much more success for him. It’s, it’s also to the point you talking about the voicemail thing was really interesting, you know.

Let’s talk about cadence and qualified leads

Darryl Praill: Part of, what David is getting to here, which is really interesting, cause I didn’t know where he was gonna go with this conversation. I’m listening to this for the first time too, guys. And you’re really getting into the idea of a cadence, which is the idea that I want to hit you over and over and over and over and over again. Maybe it’s, you know, the cliche is seven touches in seven days. For many of our, in our accounts, our clients at VanillaSoft, they’re doing exactly what you just said, David. They’re hitting them two and three times in one day and then maybe they’ll give them a break for a day and then they’ll do it again three more times the second and the third day, and then give him a break for two days.

Darryl Praill: And they’ll hit him again three more times and that, you know that the next, next time. And they’re mixing it up. So sometimes in the phone, they’re leaving a voicemail but the next time they’re ghosting them. In other words, I can see the number came up on my call display, but there was no voicemail left. So it’s enough as a trigger to say, “Yeah, I was out of my office, but I recognize that number.” But because it’s spread out I understand the rep is just chasing me. He’s not stalking me. Which is the great point that Dave was making. If you do it over and over and over again, Darryl, you wouldn’t like they would I?

Darryl Praill: No, I wouldn’t like that. You know why? Cause you’re fricking stalking me. Stop stalking me. So I really like what you’re saying there. And the other part, there is different channels. That you can call, you can email, you can social, you can refer. All of those are great vehicles. You can text to do it. And that’s huge. So in your example, to recap, your point of it’s not a numbers game, it’s really saying you don’t call a hundred contacts. You actually call a hell of a lot less. Just call them more often. And across multiple channels. Is that the long and short of it? Which seems… Say that again.

David Walter: So you can hit this one and then that one. And then you go ahead and go back and forth throughout the week and hit both different groups. But it’s, you’ve got it right. You’ve got the principal right.

Darryl Praill: I really liked that point you’re making there. It’s two different groups, right? So let’s say in my case, VanillaSoft. I might target a head of sales. Then I might target a head of marketing. Well, to David’s point, the first couple of days I’m gonna hit the head of sales. And then I’m going to give them a rate, a break when I’m hitting the head of marketing. And then I’m gonna give them a break, and head back to head to sales. So the idea of different personas, different buyers in your cycle is brilliant. It’s totally brilliant. And you should know this folks, who are the people who either buy, or influence or champion your purchase? That’s how you break it up into different buckets.

David Walter: One company that I worked at, training, we did all this work. This is another little tip that I’ll just throw in, right? I trained them on everything for a solid week. And then I put ’em on the phone and it was crickets, for five hours. Because they were calling the leads that they had bought from the provider that they said were qualified. Double verified. But it was wrong number. Bad number. The guy’s not there anymore. Company’s closed down. So just, this is a tidbit. If we had, assuming we had time, is you, you will be, you will fail. Even at the numbers game or if you’re not doing the numbers game, you’ll still fail. If you haven’t, if you don’t have a very qualified list, that’s a, you wanna have a very qualified list.

David Walter: You wanna pay somebody, not the salespeople. You wanna pay somebody else. An administrator, somebody else. The salespeople’s time is precious. Do not put a salesman to spend hours getting wrong numbers. Have someobody else do that. Division of labor is what I call it. We forgot that principle. But a have them do it then you, you put a qualified real verified list where you know the name of the contacts. That’s key. Cause then you can use that one name thing I talked about. “I’m calling for Bob.” Cause you know the owner or the CFO, whoever, you know. Bob is the guy, he’s there. Still there. It’s verified. And that’s, and you use the, use it as counter-intuitive, it’s not a numbers game principle. And you can dramatically increase your contacts.

Darryl Praill: So, this is such a, this is a whole different podcast. We, I agree with everything you just said. For example, at VanillaSoft. You know, we use Zoominfo but you can use anybody you want to. So when a lead comes in, whether it is a list that we’ve pulled, cause this is our target audience or it’s an inbound lead, they fill out a form. They all go through Zoominfo. And those who get cleansed by Zoominfo, then get flipped over to sales. Those who Zoominfo cannot cleanse, we flip over to a human being who physically tries to research them on LinkedIn, websites, whatever. And then if they can clean them, that human being puts them over to the sales rep.

Darryl Praill: And when the sales rep calls them, if they mark them as, know, Bob isn’t here anymore, it gets rejected. And it goes back to the human being to say, “Who is Bob’s replacement?” And so we’ve actually got warm bodies combined with technology, making sure the data’s clean so that my very expensive sales talent is not doing that. We’re out of time here, folks. Go buy the book, The Million Dollar Rebuttal, David Walter. David, what’s the best way to reach you?

David Walter: LinkedIn, of course. I’m giving a book away, a physical book to everybody who wants it at getbookoffer.com. So if you go there, you, it’s shipping and handling but you get all kinds of videos and training and stuff for free when you do that. So you can go to Amazon and buy it. I’ve got the audiobook, the ebook. I’ve got it all. And the print book, or you can go to getbookoffer.com and get connected with me. And then I have all these extra stuff that you get.

Darryl Praill: Cold calling is not a numbers game, my friends. It’s all about the pursuit of happiness. This is my good friend, David Walter. He is the best-selling author of The Million Dollar Rebuttal. I am Darryl Praill. I am not a bestselling author. I suck but this, my friends, is the INSIDE Inside Sales show. We will talk to you next week where we do it all again. In the meantime, have a good one. We’ll talk to you soon.